Bible Teaching
Calvary Temple Teaching Library
Panel Discussion
Pastoral Staff
March 26, 2000 Sun PM
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So here we are thousands of years later benefiting from Job's hard times. What was it in Job's trial that was so important, so that we could look and say, "That Job is a tough dude. Praise God! The great cloud of witnesses." What was it that Job witnessed to you and I? In the teaching on the promises you remember that we said the fulfillment of the promises, and even the interim, was so that God could receive all the glory. In James-turn over to James for just a second and you can read that. I think it's a very important principle for us that tie the patience teaching and the promises teaching together. Chapter 5 of James, down at verse 11; it talks about the happy endurance and then it says, "…Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord…" The final reason and what God was intending for this; the whole purpose was so that you could see something about God. What is it we were to learn about the Lord from Job's experience? "…that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy." Everything you and I go through, whether it's trials or blessings received, is so that people around can see that the Lord is pitiful and full of mercy toward us, His people. We don't deserve anything we get, and when we are blessed of God it shows the mercy of God and the love and the care of God. Don't get so introverted in anything that we're doing, whether it's a trial or a blessing that you think it's about you. It's not about you; it's about God. We get to benefit from that. Whether we ever receive anything-I would say and every one of us here has that same attitude I know-if I never got anything in the natural from the Lord, my salvation is sufficient. So we begin to look at it from that eternal perspective, I think and it really helps us understand.
One other thing that I think is important and it goes along with the teachings-the book of Job was also recorded for us to deal with probably the greatest, and I think we shared it in the patience teaching, the greatest philosophical standards that were held from antiquity. As long as men have been around, regardless of what tribe, regardless of what religion, here was the perception of man. Any man that believed in deities, whether the monotheistic or polytheistic or whatever it might be, they truly believe-and you're going to see that it's in you, we addressed it-if you do good, you get blessed; if you do bad, you get punished. Therefore anything that's-if something bad, adverse, is going on in our lives, we must be doing something wrong-the gods are against us. We've somehow gotten ourselves into a position where God cannot deal with us favorably. That's why we went through these last two teachings was for us to see that there can be adverse circumstances and God is still moving in your life, blessing you, causing you to grow, Him being glorified, and that it's not all about you. That's a lot of what the teaching was about.
One other area, Steve, and I'll let you go ahead and comment on this to start off with. You were sharing back there that you felt that one of the things that we may need to re-emphasize had to do with the aspect of the immediate receiving of the promises. Maybe you can comment on that from your home group last night.
Pastor Gardner: I wouldn't, not just from the home group, but from Bible class as well over the past couple of weeks, it has become quite clear that many people have caught hold of the fact that the promises-it's not just me receiving the promise of whatever it might be, healing or whatever. That's one we pick on a lot, healing; but it's not just a matter of receiving the promise, but seeing how other people are affected in that. But seeing that all of the promises are to, for the purpose of leading us to the eternal promise of eternal life, or the promise I should say, of eternal life. And yet, one of the things I think that we have to watch out for is forgetting about, "Well, we all know that we're going to be whole. We'll be out of wheelchairs. We won't be blind. We won't be deaf." Whatever our problem may be here in the natural, we will not suffer that same problem in the eternal. once we've gone into heaven, whether that be by the way of death or the rapture of the church. All of those promises are going to be fulfilled, so there's really no point in me believing for that promise now. That's not true. There is. Even though I may be waiting for a year or two or five or ten, or I may never receive that promise here, I may see someone, a loved one, believing to see my mother healed of cancer. In the natural, we didn't see that. Now today, she's perfectly whole. She's not suffering with cancer, but we can't put that off. Because that took place that way, we couldn't say, "Well, I'm not going to-someone else has found out they have cancer. Well, yeah, we're going to believe for that, but I know, I'm going to believe more that they're going to remain saved because if they die, which we're all going to do one day anyway, they're going to be perfectly whole in heaven anyway." We can begin to just kind of put those things off and not be fervent in our belief and believing to see the promise manifest here and now. We know that it will manifest, but we don't necessarily need to see it here and now. Yet we do, because it is going to have an effect. God is going to be glorified and there will be many people that will be affected, whether they draw closer to Father or whether they get further away.
One way or the other, people are going to strengthen their relationship, or they're going to walk away. Part of it's going to be on how they see you go through, how they see you standing and believing for the promise. We're not all around the same people. All of us, there are different people watching us, people in our neighborhoods. We've just moved, so we're just now beginning to see people. It's been winter and nobody's been out and now they've been out and starting to see more people and beginning to find out some things about them. But as they watch you-they don't know a whole lot about us. They've only seen us a little bit, but as time goes on, if there are things that we go through as a family and those people on that street are watching, how do we handle adversity? How do we handle blessing? How do we handle them knowing, as they will come to know as time goes on here, some of them I think already know a little bit about Calvary Temple. I know the people right across the street do. Watching you, how you're handling that. If you're not believing, if you're just believing, "Well, this will come. When I'm dead and in heaven or the rapture of the church takes place, whatever it is I have need of whether it's hearing; we're going to be perfectly whole. I'm not going to be a nervous person. I'm not going to be stressed out all the time, let the emotional things, the social-the entire man is going to be whole." That is true, but it's not something that we can put off until then, nor is it something that as we're seeking for it, seeking for whatever promise we may need at the present time that we should think that this is for me and me alone, because it's not. It never is. I think that was one of the things for me that was-I knew that, but it wasn't something that was just there in the forefront of my thinking, that I don't really like what I'm going through and thinking, "This is tough on me." Well, yeah, it is always tough on the person that's right in the middle of the thing. I don't think Job exactly liked the circumstances that he was in, but the many thousands and thousands and perhaps millions of people that have been blessed and stood faithful to the end of their life on this life because of just watching the example of Job.
Pastor Scott: Job, like you were saying, Job received it in this life. The point you were making initially I think is very important. Let's turn to Acts chapter 3 for just a second in fact. As Steve was giving the example, for instance, of his mother-a trial that he went through and many of us standing in prayer and believing for healing in Edith's body; and she went on to be with the Lord. She's in perfect peace right now and to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. She's already achieved the goal we're looking for. What more could you ask for? Now, in the natural, if she had remained and the Lord had chosen to leave her here, what would have been the purpose for that? To see the miracle of Steve getting married? That would have been something. She probably wouldn't have been able to survive that. The reality of God getting His glory, I think, is the key to this. This is what Steve was saying. Let's not say, "Well, if they die, Lord, they've got cancer, heal them; that's that. But if You don't, they're going to be fine and healed in eternity." God gets glory now through the miraculous. The promises are not just for the future. They're also to be expected now, immediately, for God's immediate glory. Acts chapter 3 shows that.
We all know the story of the healing of the lame man. Look, it says that as they stopped and responded to him, "…In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. [Immediately. Immediately. ] "And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, leaping, and [What?] praising God." Then verse 9, "And all the people saw him walking and praising God....and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him." Then you read on through the story and it continues down into verse 16 and they begin to share the great things that God has done. It says, "And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."
So we see, then, that these signs and wonders that we're believing God for are not just so that we can feel better, so that our life can follow out a natural course that would be desirable to all of us, but the motive has to be the glory of God-that the promises are being fulfilled for the glory of God. The promises are put off into the eternal for the glory of God. It's not for you to just say, "Well, yeah, praise God, heal them, Lord" assuming that God is going to get His glory in the eternal. You need to believe that it's something that's going to happen now. Because to not believe for an immediate miracle is for you to take upon yourself how God is going to be glorified. You're trying to establish the mandate of it and the timing and the method and all of these things. It's just as much, it's just as much {yes, he said it two times} unbelief-as we went over in the promise-to not believe for an immediate miracle as it is unbelief not to believe at all; because it's taking it back to you again, thinking that it has to do with your perception and your application. I think those are some important issues that you were bringing up back there.
Pastor Gardner: The thing too, there, in dealing with Job and realizing that that whole thing was-obviously there were some things that Job was being worked on in his own character. Job was a righteous man; he was perfect as far as God was concerned. Yet He went through this trial for a reason. Job could have died before this trial was over, and been in the presence of God. But I think that-I was going to try to tie two things together here. As you look at the end of the book of Job and you see the last chapter there, I think there were three people that weren't in right relationship with Father, where they needed to be. Whether these people, had they died, would they have gone to hell? Probably not, but there were some pretty stern things spoken about them in the forty-second chapter of Job. Beginning at verse 7, it says, "And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee [I didn't hear Him ever say that to Job], and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath." We know that everything that Job said, that we have recorded, wasn't right. But this man was right with God. These other three friends of his weren't. He says, "Therefore take unto you [God speaking to Eliphaz] now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you [this guy that they all thought had sinned, done something wrong. He's the one that's going to pray for you]: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job." To see how this brought these three-now they went and did exactly what they were supposed to do and they got themselves right with God. But Job was the one that went through all of this stuff for that.
And then dealing with the promise and believing for that immediately, as you just spoke, and to not believe for it to see it immediately would be as much as sin as not to believe for it at all. I think at times as we get into some of the different things-the trials and tests in life that we get into-and to come to the place that we just think totally of ourselves: "What did I do wrong? Why is this happening to me?" The majority of our thinking is that way, is wrong, because to think that I've sinned when I haven't and I'm dealing with something-you know, there again, that is to question the love of God. At least the way I look at it again is to question the love of God and because as you examine your own heart and you can see none of us are perfect in that we never sin, but we know that if we're pursuing God with all of our heart and for the right purpose that we are perfect as far as He is concerned. And then to question, "Why are you sending me through this trial? What have I done to deserve this?" "Well, you haven't done anything, but somebody on your street, somebody in your home, somebody somewhere needs to get the message. I know that you can deal with it, you are My servant. You're here to serve Me and you are serving Me. So since you're My-I'm going to use you this way, and this is going to come about, and because of this your three friends are going to be put back in right relationship with Me and they're going to make it." The point of everything that he was blessed with really wasn't-that was all great and I wouldn't mind taking all of that. I don't think I'd want to go through what he went through to be doubly blessed there at the end.
Pastor Scott: The problem with the three friends, or the three comforters as they're known, the thing that kept them in jeopardy was that they were seeking an answer for why and not seeking God for who He is in relationship. That's the point we tried to drive home in the promises teaching. They had to come up with a conclusion. They had to know why this happened. They wanted to know-Okay, I understand what you're saying. If Job's comforters were here prior to their lives being turned, the captivity, they would be saying to your statement right there, "Okay, I understand that, but who's being helped by this? I want to know who is going to be helped by this, and I want to know how long it's going to be until I see some fruit of them being helped by this. Do you have any proof that somebody's going to be helped by this?" The whole aspect is, again, not relying on the character of God; that He is merciful. That's what the conclusion of James was, that He's a merciful God, full of tender mercies and compassion. That's what was wanting to be revealed to the hearts of men through the whole process. Jeff, were you going to comment on, along these lines or something else you wanted to share?
Pastor Heglund: Sure, along these lines. I think, you were saying in the back that's a big reason why you even did this teaching-to make sure that even among ourselves as a congregation we had the right atmosphere for honoring God and for seeing some of the miracles that would be done; to make sure we don't get into that kind of casual approach to God. In the teaching, you said it a number of different ways, so many different times. One of the ways that stood out to me was that you spoke that it's really for us in this room. It's really not an issue of whether God can do the miracle, but it's whether He'll do it for me. Then you went on to further speak that for us it should be even more than that, not just questioning, "Will God do it for me?" but to make sure that we have the proper attitude, which is what you're speaking toward-just to count Him faithful through it and realize that there's nothing we can do in the natural to try to achieve that thing, but we still need to have that expectation of the immediate.
I liked the one area you were relating and making clear to all of us-that for us to make it in this time and this hour, we're going to have to have the heart of Caleb. You were speaking that time that our God is well able and everything around us that we're seeing, we're seeing the giants in the land and everybody else is giving a wicked report and we're just trusting simply, immediately believing against all hope that God's well able. That's something that gives me strength, especially when you see and you know who Caleb was. He is somebody who followed God fully. Just following Him fully as it relates to this aspect of this teaching, making sure that we're counting Him faithful when we're not seeing it. But never losing hope, that same attitude of heart that you shared that there's nothing that honors Father more than just our cheerful obedience in the day to day simple areas of life. That was Caleb's heart. He knew that God had promised, "Look, you're supposed to go into the promised land." Circumstances didn't matter to Caleb. He said, "We're well able. This is what God wants for us; He's going to accomplish that." That cheerful obedience that it produced in him, and I think of a lot of areas in my own life and especially watching Hailey and the different areas of just how that's true. That cheerful obedience, and how it would break my heart even just rote obedience, or a legalistic obedience. If that was Hailey's heart toward me-"Hailey, pick up your books." "Yes, Father. Will you give me dinner if I pick up my books?" "Hailey, it's time for a bath." "Yes, Father" and she goes over there. If I'm speaking to her, I say, "Pick up your books," and she says alright, Dad; then she comes and gives me a hug and has that attitude of cheerful obedience, what a joy that is. When you don't have to say things three or four times, and "I don't want to have to pick up my books." Seeing in my life, do I have that attitude towards the promises? Do I really have that cheerful heart? I know God wants to do it, but does He want to do it for me? Does He want to do it for this giant prayer list we have-some of us have made comments about that. Yes, He does. We have to-whether we see it immediately or not, believe those things and count Him faithful.
Pastor Scott: I think the counterpart, too, to Caleb, Joshua-and that's what we were relating to this morning. In the life of Joshua we see a lot of things. Caleb had that other spirit that was in him. Joshua, however, was the man chosen to lead the people into the promise. Who was this guy? He was the guy that stayed up on the mountain with Moses. He's the guy that when everybody else left, stayed at the tabernacle and was hungry for the presence of God. To think that we're going to be able to endure-the patience teaching-to think that we're going to be able to see the miraculous and inherit the promises if we don't have the same heart of the pursuit of the relationship, then it has to become a works oriented or legalistic relationship. Once you know that He is your Father and that He loves you and that the relationship is there, that's what allows all of this rest and the expectation. Father wants it for us. As long as we can allow Him to be the source and His wisdom to make the application, we're going to be in a lot better shape in the environment for the miracles.
I shared with you the reason I did this teaching was so that we could begin to have an expectation of the miraculous: to believe for the healings, not to become complacent and just sit back and say, "God's able and the Lord's sovereign, and if He wants to, He will." He's told us that we're to pray. He's told us we're to fast. He's told us that we're to resist the devil. He's told us that we're to lay hands on the sick and see them recover. He's told us-people aren't just going to get saved because God wants them saved. He's told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel. We have a responsibility, even though we don't have the ability. We have the responsibility to go out and represent Him. Then, as Mark says, He will confirm the word that's spoken with signs following. We, then, bring about the affirmation of what God said. We declare it in faith and then He confirms it in His own sovereignty. These are some of the areas where we want to stir up in us again that expectation. Believing people to respond when we're out sharing the gospel daily. To believe that when I lay my hands on somebody-not me, but I'm talking about you-that when we, each of us, lay our hands on somebody, I expect that in the name of Jesus they're going to rise up and walk. I have an expectation that when I pray, God hears me. I believe that the effectual, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. I'm not just going through some religious dogma. I'm in communion with my Father, and His presence is going to manifest for His glory in a way that He desires.
What am I expecting? I'm expecting the things I've read about in the Scriptures. I expect that if I get thrown into a lion's den, not to be eaten. I expect that if I get thrown in a furnace, to have a fourth man there and not be consumed. I expect when I am trapped up against the Red Sea, for it to divide and me to go across. When the promise is before me and it's flood time and the Jordan is raging, I expect for the priest to step in and watch the water stand in a heap. I expect when my enemies come against me, for fire to come out of heaven and consume them. I expect a thousand to fall at my side and ten thousand at my right hand, and it not to come nigh me. That's what I expect. That's where I'm living, but God, then, makes the determination of the application. Those are all things that I've read in the Scripture and those are the great cloud of witnesses; but He may not choose to do it that way. It may be another way. I'm resting in His ability. I'm not having to see it based upon a biblical, historical event. It can be something that we've never seen before that will manifest. What we need to know is that His promises are there for His glory, for our good, and rest in that.
Anybody else? You guys want to comment?
Pastor Heglund: Just along those lines, it seems like a lot of times we get caught up so much too in the act of doing that-I need to go witnessing; I need to hold my mouth this way when I pray, and then I'll get the promises. You made it clear over and over in the teaching that God's more interested in us counting Him faithful. He wants our hearts. He wants us to love Him. He wants us to go witnessing not because we've got to keep the rules so we'll be in His good graces, but because we love Him so much and we want to be obedient to Him and we want to honor Him. That's when He's able to move. The way that we hinder God is when-I almost relate it to like working with the youth. Sometimes you get a class of kids and they're just-you love them, but they're a mess. You want to do fun stuff with them and you want to bless them, and you want to take them here and do this, but you can't because they keep doing dumb stuff. So you keep having to have character worked in their life and you're doing it because you love them. The kids are like, "How come we don't get to do fun stuff like those other people? How come we're not getting blessed?" It's because you're having to continue to work character. It wouldn't be right to give them all the blessings; those blessings are going to kill them. I thought that was one of the big points throughout this whole teaching for us to understand-God's more concerned about our hearts and our faithfulness, counting Him faithful, and wanting those things in us. Many times we wonder why we're not getting blessed, and you kept saying it over and over. It's because God's more concerned with our humility and our patience and our ability to love Him. That's what He wants more than anything for us, to just enter into that love relationship, that rest, that trust of Him. That's the main thing that I just kept getting out of it for myself. It brings a real peace. I shared in the men's breakfast that sometimes I think there's something wrong with me-"How come I didn't see all these miracles? How come I'm not seeing all these people-" What did I say? Oh, everybody's laughing because something's wrong with me? Yes, there are many things wrong with me. Anyway, yeah. In dealing with those areas, something's wrong with me and getting a glimpse, "How come I haven't seen this person rise up from the wheelchair? Twenty years ago we saw all these different things. Do I need to fast more, or pray more, or these other areas?" The real rest of seeing that no, I just need to just continue to be patient and expect and count Him faithful; and if God will, there's a set time.
Pastor Scott: And that not all of us, again, a lot of these things of course, as God's manifesting His purposes and the vessels that He chooses to show Himself mighty through many times have a bigger, again, a bigger purpose than we're aware of at the moment. None of us are going to experience what Moses did. None of us have that responsibility. We're not going to see the Elijah type ministry, every one of us in this room, because it's not necessary. That's the thing-we can't go through the Scriptures and pick and choose the greatest vessels of all time and equate ourselves with them. It's not a thing of trying to equate ourselves with Moses; it's a thing of understanding that God's the same. He doesn't change. He's no respecter of persons. He's going to do what brings Him the glory. I don't have to be a Moses to measure up and be accepted as a son. I'm not expected to do what Moses did, because God hasn't put me in that area of responsibility. It's a thing, again, of trying to somehow measure up, or somehow thinking that I got shortchanged. "Why did Elijah get to see all this and I'm getting shortchanged? I'm praying as much as Elijah did, and fasting, and I'm not whining that God has forsaken me and that everyone else has bowed their knee." We begin to judge ourselves from a performance thing rather than a relational thing. I think that's important.
We responded about that in the back. It's an area-it's amazing how in following those who through faith and patience we will look and say, "Okay. I'm going to follow the great cloud of witnesses: Moses and Joshua. We're going to see our father Abraham, and Elijah, and one of the greats, Samuel." And you go down and you look through the great men of God and you see the Peters and the Pauls and Marys. You look at all of these and you say, "Somehow I'm going to try to imitate that." It's good to have them there as our examples and to follow them, but to try to somehow hold God legally bound to do in our life what He did in theirs is to miss, again, His sovereignty, our-for lack of a better word-our influence in the eternal kingdom of God rather than our own personal application of principles. We begin to get, again, introverted rather than letting the word speak for itself; and in following those who through faith and patience, we then begin to get discouraged somewhat. So we say, "Well, I will do more so I can achieve." We're missing something, because when we get to read the life of Abraham, Moses, David, these men, the Scripture says they're men just like you and I. They're men given to like passions. I look at these guys and I think, "If I could only somehow be like them." I am like them. Just God chose to use them that way, and He chose to use me the way He's used me. They've done great things for the kingdom and we try to be faithful in the small things God has given us to do. Then we get into the mistake of starting to look around and compare ourselves with others: "I wish I could be as spiritual as that person." The fact of the matter is, you probably are. They're fighting the same battles you are. There's not a performance level that is expected of us; there's a trust and a reliance that He's wanting to work in us. That's a little bit of an overview of what we were trying to accomplish. Richard?
Pastor Miller: That rest that we enter into, it doesn't come easily. Like you were just sharing, we become so self centered in our walk with God and we think, "If I do this, then God will do that" as if somehow we're in control.
Pastor Scott: We're back in the book of Job almost.
Pastor Miller: It's amazing how self-centered we become. I know just from personal experience, times where I've thought, "I'm going to pray this way and study this way and do this, and this is going to be the best teaching I ever gave, or the best worship service because I did this and God's going to move." Then it ends up being a flop. But times when I come in here hassled, or at the last minute, or didn't have time to prepare-
Pastor Scott: You just fell out of the attic after doing some wiring.
Pastor Miller: Yep. That's the time when God can move. Those have been some of the best times. In fact, sometimes I've pondered the paradox that-and I certainly would never state this as a doctrine-but sometimes I've pondered the paradox that it seems like the less I study, the better it goes because the Holy Spirit can then, there's just such a greater dependence upon Him and you're not trying to make anything happen; you're completely relying on Him.
Pastor Scott: The key is what you're saying is almost true. The way to really see it work is this: the less I trust in my study, not the less I study; but the less I trust in my study, and the less I trust in my preparation. Because the other extreme is, "I just won't prepare. I'm just going to show up and God will fill my mouth." He will; with your foot. All of us that do teaching, as much as teaching as you do, and myself and there's different areas in preparation, but what you're saying is exactly true. It's what I go through. You think, "I'm ready now." When you really think you're ready, God will let you see how ready you were without Him.
Pastor Miller: I was reading something in James chapter one the other day-I believe it was out of Barnes'-about that aspect of the engrafted word that's able to save your soul. So many times, we think, "Okay. I'm going to be spiritual now. I've got this Bible study thing down and I'm going to go through 23.5 verses a day and I'm going to look this up in three concordances, and really that engrafted word-Barnes makes a note that we are completely incapable of implanting that word in our own hearts. That word, the engrafted word-or it's really the implanted word-he is saying that is something that only the Divine can do. It's a divine energizing, much like the teaching you've done out of Romans where when we have an audience from God, you won't grow a lick from hours upon hours upon hours of Bible study that is achieved through self effort. But when God implants a word-and it could be just a paragraph, it could be just a phrase, that is what brings life to the saving of the soul because it was God-planted, not something that we tried to achieve through our own will power or self effort. That's what makes, that's where that rest comes from. Hebrews says to labor to enter into that rest, which means we have to have an active pursuit of that type of faith because it's something where our natural man-if I can embarrass my kids for a moment. You won't mind will you? No, they might mind, but we won't mind.
Pastor Scott: I won't mind if you embarrass your kids, just don't embarrass mine.
Pastor Miller: Okay. Just to let you know, sometimes they get embarrassed when I mention them, but they-they've really improved in this. They don't really do this much anymore, but something is coming up and they say, "Can I go and do this? Can I go and do that? Can you give me five dollars for this? Can I go and get this? It's $18.95. We're going here in a couple of weeks, can I have some money for this?" It's kind of humorous, around the house the stock answer is, "Haven't I always taken care of you?" Because what they're asking me may not be something that I'm ready to obligate myself to. I'll say, "We'll see." Sometimes they don't like that answer. I have to ask them, "Haven't I always taken care of you?" Now it has almost become humorous because it's kind of the standing answer in the house when they come and ask for something. The stock answer is, "I'll take care of you when the time comes." Something you said in the service the other day really struck a note with me because a lot of times what I'm going to do for them is better than what they're asking for. That's how it is with our Father. When you were making that statement that when apparently a promise is not answered, He's got something better for us. That's the trust in His character and the trust in His love. On our end, we're the control freak. We want to know; we want to obligate God; we want to know when, how, and where. Are you going to give me eighteen dollars and fifty-six cents or eighteen dollars and seventy-five cents." We want every little thing laid out for us, and if we don't have that then we don't feel comfortable. We feel anxious. That just shows we don't know Him. Paul said, "I know whom I have believed." When you know Him, then you can go out not knowing whither you go and you can go out not having to have every detail laid out in front of you. You can have that trust in Father.
Pastor Scott: That is so important. That was the crux of the teaching. Let me embarrass you. Where do you think your kids got that?
Pastor Miller: I know. They-I know. That's the-.
Pastor Scott: You would think they were raised in a home where everything had to be figured out and all the wire ties had to be laid out a certain way, and everything had to be planned and done yesterday.
Pastor Miller: They got it honestly. That's exactly the way I am, and that's what I battle with.
Pastor Scott: But you know, you do. That tendency in you is one of the things that I'm able to rely upon because it's sanctified. When I need something done, you're the one I ask to do it because it gets done in warp speed-which is almost acceptable to me. The key is those things, our greatest strengths-we've shared it so many times-can be our greatest weaknesses. It's the application and the awareness of who we are. Once we can really come and in your own life, one of the greatest transitions in your life, and the thing that's really made you into the man of God that you are today has been the ability to see that, identify it, and let God control it and it not control you. That's been the fruit. That's been the blessing. In all of our lives, it's being able to put our finger on that and let it work. Those things that we're always warring against that want us to trust in ourselves or be dominated by our own, whether it's an appetite or the believing of a lie in our own abilities. Some people have abilities and trust in them, and that's weakness; and other people have no abilities and think they do, and that's another weakness. We all have to be able to identify what it is that Father's working in our lives. That's the crux of this teaching.
You were sharing-why don't you go ahead and share a little more on that aspect of that part that you said stood out to you so much in the Genesis factor of Abraham and the Mount Moriah. I thought that what you were sharing was outstanding on that the other evening when we were talking about it.
Pastor Miller: There are several, so many things spoke to me about that I hope I get the one that you were referring to. One of the things was with Jehovah Jireh and that whole revelation. God is revealed as our Jehovah Jireh when we come to the place of being able to offer it all up. In the life of Abraham, it took a whole lifetime to bring him to the place of being able to make that ultimate sacrifice. It gives us a lot of hope and encouragement when we see our own life and realize that this is a lifetime journey we're on, and we don't have to be perfect today. We're going to make mistakes, and we're going to fail, but that's not the point. One thing that several people commented on in the home fellowship group last night was your comments about Abraham and Lot really encouraged them-that in the New Testament, he was called righteous Lot. Yet we read the Old Testament account and see so many of his failures. That just really blessed a couple people. They said, "If that's how God saw Lot, think of how He must see me through Jesus." That was a great encouragement, just to realize that we're on a journey. It takes a lifetime. It's not going to happen overnight. If you look back at your life, it's amazing, in certain stages of your growth, things that you battle with for years and then finally one day you gain the victory in it and you think, "Why did that take so many years? Why didn't the Lord just do this five years ago? Why did I have to go through all of this grief?" You were learning that dependence and that trust in His grace that is sufficient. He had you going through that for a purpose.
The whole aspect of Jehovah Jireh and the fact that His presence is the provision; and His presence is the promise. In His presence all of the promises are fulfilled. When we have His presence, we don't become anxious about when and if and "God, why isn't this happening now?" because His presence is really all we need. It's what we live off of. That answers all of the questions.
Pastor Scott: I think that aspect that, as you were sharing, the presence factor and that when they were going up that hill and the question was asked by Isaac, "Where is the sacrifice?" The response was, "…God will provide himself..." (Genesis 22:8) Abraham didn't know the answer. There wasn't an obligation. Abraham had come to that place to be able to learn and trust God. As pastors or as fathers or whatever, we don't always have to have an answer. But our children should be raised up through our experiences, watching our lives to know that we may not have the definitive answer, but we know our God and He will provide. He's going to provide Himself. Whatever will glorify Him, He's already made the provision for us. Jesus took the pain, the sickness, the disease, the death on himself so that He now has the legal right-He always had the power and authority-to determine it, to administer it for His glory and for our good. That's the confidence. We just say, "God will provide. God is Jehovah Jireh. His presence I know is here, and however He's going to express it is fine with me. It may be having to kill you, and then let God raise you up. I would prefer it not be that way." Isaac would have said, "Yeah, me too." But God will provide, and took him to that point. We talked about how we all have to come to that place in our lives. Somewhere we have to come to that place-whether it's our Gethsemane, whether it's the raising of the knife to destroy the child, whatever it is-we have to come to that place where God says, "Now I know that you trust Me." God knew all along through His foreknowledge and His eternal being, and basically what He's saying is, "Now I have revealed to you the witnesses that Abraham trusts Me. That's why I can choose you, because you'll raise your children and your children's children." That's the growth process that you were talking about. The lifetime, to where we come and say, "Now it's determined. You're going to finish this course." In that, we still don't see a boasting or a reliance in Abraham's perception of himself. He still knew what was in him, but he was confident now-"I've been through this. If I can go through this, then I don't have any fear of what else is going to come." I'm not saying it will be easy, but I'm not afraid. I'm not saying I'm going to like it, but I'm not afraid because God has always been there and His grace has always been sufficient." That's why we go through these tests, so that we can begin to have that confidence. Many of us are still in that learning process.
Pastor Miller: Can I make another comment? (Pastor Scott: Yeah.) A couple people in the home fellowship group I was in last night commented on how they struggled at times that they didn't think they were going through any trials. One guy even asked his wife, "Do I have any trials in my life right now?"
Pastor Scott: His wife said, "No. You are one." I don't know who he's talking about, so-
Pastor Miller: I think a lot of times-and I would kind of like to hear your comments on this, because I was thinking that I've experienced that too. Just because you don't have something that is catastrophic happening in your life, many times we tend to think, "I'm not in a trial" when really every choice we make is a trial. You were talking this morning about the paycheck. Every time we get a paycheck, that's a trial. When you get that paycheck, do you think, "I'm just so good and so special and that's why I can go out and make this money. I really earned this and deserve this," or do you say, "Thank you, Jesus. I realize that this provision is from You." Everything that happens to us in life is a trial; it's a test of our heart. It doesn't have to be something catastrophic to be trial. When your child disobeys at home, how you react to that disobedience is a trial. Many times we feel that our life is just in a rut and we don't have any great tests or great trials and it's because we're failing all the ones that we do have. He can't lead us down the path any further because we haven't passed the test up to this point.
Pastor Scott: Some of it is-I think we need to understand too-some of it is the thirty, sixty, and one hundred fold principle of what we're going to be producing for the kingdom. Somebody asked me this, and I don't even remember where it was. Somebody just asked about that the other day, the thirty, sixty, one hundred fold aspect. We were sharing with them that the production is able to be distinguished-that this is a thirty fold, and a sixty, and a hundred-but in each of our lives there is to be a hundred percent application in our pursuit and our commitment. There has to always be a hundred percent application of pursuit and commitment, but in some of our lives, God will just work us to thirty percent. A lot of these things that people are not experiencing great or grave trials, they are still being tried. Their ability to, the trial would have to do with decisions such as we were talking about this morning: What am I doing with my spare time? What am I doing to serve others? Every one of us has sin in our members that we're having to contend with. Besetting sins, how do I deal with those aspects? It doesn't have to be of the Job magnitude for us to consider it a trial. Just also being able to realize that as we study the Scriptures or we look at people around us and say, "Here's someone in a catastrophic situation." Everyone is not going to be in a catastrophic situation all the time, and everyone may not even have it once. That's part of the sovereignty of God. But the trial is, am I remaining faithful? Sometimes it's harder to be diligent with the lack of adversity than it is to be diligent when things are going well and you don't have any problems-that in itself is a trial. The proving process, that prosperity aspect, is a trial. The ease of life-"I don't have any trials! I can eat anything I want and not get fat. I don't ever have any pains or headaches. I've never been sick. Nobody in the family is sick. Everything is well." That's a trial. So now what are you going to do? Are you going to think that you're somebody special? That's a trial. You might start thinking of yourself more highly than you ought to think-"Everybody else is going through this, but it's obvious that I'm perfect." All of these things are trials in our lives. Did you guys want to comment along those lines? Richard, do you have anything else?
Pastor Miller: Do you think that-because again, in the home fellowship group last night someone brought up your statement that you think, or you believed that Janet has been through a lot of the physical problems she's been through for your sake-for God to purify your heart. Is it, would it be fair to say that great men of God that are used mightily by God experience greater trials-in the sense of catastrophic or-
Pastor Scott: Again, the trials being what we would ascertain trials. You look back at different things. You see Paul having to leave position and religion, Peter having to leave the business, Elisha having to leave the family, the warfare of the heartbreak of Samuel losing his children, the biblical pattern seems to be that there is in many of these lives a refining process that's commensurate with how God's going to use that vessel. That doesn't mean that everybody that has a big trial is going to be somebody that's going to be some kind of a noted vessel, but I don't know of any scriptural cases that there hasn't had to be the refining process. Maybe you guys can think of some. It's an area that I think there is that aspect, and it has to do again with the vessel.
How much does that person have to be humbled. The question, "Do I believe that a lot of what Janet's gone through was for my good?" I really believe that after some thirty years of trying to analyze this and figure out why. The question would have been, "Why didn't God put you through that?" I couldn't do what I was supposed to do if I was going through that, because the fact of the matter is, many of the things that I've been able to do and been used of God to do wasn't because of how spiritual I am or that I'm something special, it's that God chose to do that in spite of me. That's His choice. In the process, we're going through a lot of these other things. She's, in that, she's more precious than my own life. These are some of the things that you go through, and it's a humbling thing. It's a humbling thing when you're out preaching healing and miraculous power and the person closest to you is experiencing these things. Now, are you going to still preach it or aren't you? That's part of this process that you're going through and it's a very humbling thing to stand up and name the name of Jesus and lay hands on the sick and cast out devils, and-the comment to Jesus, "You healed others, save Yourself." Jesus said, "My trust is in Father." That's part of the process. I don't know if that answers the question or not.
Those are things that we all go through in our own trials, but everybody's trials are different. We can't minimize anything. Getting up in the morning is a trial. Just having to live in this world is a trial. Representing Jesus out there effectively is a trial on us. Those are different areas, but I can't think of anything-I can't think of any great instruments that God used-and when I say "great," I mean great in notoriety, not in the quality of their essence-that didn't have to be involved in some kind of a refining process that in and of itself brought glory to God. It showed that it's not the vessel; it's the glory in the vessel. That's why I think the vessel has to be exposed for what it is. That's a little bit.
Any questions on what we've discussed so far or any of the teaching on the promises or our teaching this morning on the daily bread? We'll deal with any questions that may be this evening. Time's getting away. Anything from the teaching on the promises or this morning's teaching we'll be happy to go over any of these and discuss them. Any questions? Any questions going once, okay. Twice; we'll let a comment be made here in just a second, and then maybe I'm going to take this-we don't always get this opportunity. I think we might want to ask a couple of questions and hear some comments. I'd like to hear some of you maybe articulate back what you heard in the teaching and how you've grasped some of these principles. We'll see if there's anything else that's key that stood out to you guys that you might want to share.
I asked the guys from last night if in their visiting the home fellowship groups if they perceived any holes, anything that seemed to be an obvious hole that was in the understanding of this message or the application of it, and we've tried to address a couple of these things. We'll go from there. Go ahead with your comment.
(Inaudible.)
Pastor Scott: Right. Wigglesworth, Branham, many of these guys had physical adversities that they experienced, that were in their own homes. It's-there's a biblical principle in Paul's life. The reason for the buffeting that occurred in his life was because of the abundance of the revelation. When you're moving in some of this revelation, these different things, that there's going to be many times an opposition. There's going to be something that would be a constant reminder of our need daily to rely on Him. If you've never been there, there's-to the small degree that we've experienced that move of God in our lives-I can remember it so clearly. I was laying across the bed in our Sugarland Run house and praying prior to one of our miracle rallies and I was just laying across the bed praying and the Lord spoke to me and He said, "I'm going to open the ears of the deaf." I thought, "That's cool!" We began to see the deaf just-it was amazing the things that we began to see of people receiving their hearing in some of the miracle rallies around the area. When we went to Haiti and held some of the rallies down there and different things. It was an amazing thing. Then all of a sudden, it was like the faucet was turned off as it pertained to that.
We began to see a lot of other miracles down at that New Adventures in Prayer where someone had asked us about that. I can't even remember. Where were we talking about that? It was something the other day. Maybe it came up in one of the pastor's conferences or something. They were asking about some of those meetings at New Adventures in Prayer. There was a mighty move of God. We saw some phenomenal miracles down there. That's the one where that little old, I can still remember, that little girl-she wasn't a girl, she was a woman. She would have weighed ninety pounds soaking wet. That's when we were still catching people that were falling over under the power. I can still remember to this day. I remember reaching up and touching this girl and the power of God went into her body and she slammed to the floor just as if I'd grabbed her and body slammed her. Boom! One of the ushers tried to catch here and as he did, it just drove him to the ground. I can still remember kind of laughing, because he got up off the floor and went and sat on the front pew and was holding his arms. It almost pulled his arms out of the socket. That was really kind of an interesting thing. I'm saying all that to say this: when you begin to experience that in your life it's a real, it's a real paradox. You know that it's not you, but it is you. You're being used of God and you're representing that power to the place where if you're not careful you can fall into the delusion like A.A. Allen did. A friend of mine who knew A.A. Allen, was present in one of his meetings. He saw some phenomenal things. A.A. Allen died an alcoholic, of cirrhosis of the liver. He was one of the greatest healing evangelists of the twentieth century. He was bound by alcohol. This friend of mine who was in the meeting said that prior to walking out on the platform-thousands and thousands, his meetings were as big as Oral Roberts' at that time. He would turn to them and say, "What do you want to see God do tonight?" Now you're getting into a real dangerous area. You know it's God, but you think you're orchestrating it. That's why many times there has to be this humbling process.
The old saying of a lot of the old evangelists, "There's two things you don't do. You don't touch the glory, and you don't touch the gold." Tragically, the thing that brought most of them down was touching the glory and the gold. The next thing you know, money is pouring in by the truckloads and tens of thousands of people and more money than you know what to do with, and all of the acclaim that goes along with it. The next thing you know, like a William Branham, you begin to think now you're Elijah. He ended up believing that-one of the great healing evangelists. I'm sharing all that with you to share, and I shared it from here-when God began to move in our lives knowing this history, I said, "Lord, I don't want to do this. I don't have the character to do this. These guys all got killed by Your power, and I don't want to defect. I don't want to apostatize. I don't want to end up thinking I'm Elijah or something. This scares me." Trying to weigh that out with, "It's the promise of God. You go do these things in My name." Trying to weigh that command out with the manifestation of the power and how do you cope with this now? We came to that place where it was almost like that. It was a thing that when we were in these-there was no question in my mind what we were going to see as far as the miraculous. God in His mercy was able to protect us somewhat from this through these trials that we were just talking about. If it really was me, one person would have been healed first, and that would have been Janet. I won't fill in all the rest of the gaps, but it just kind of gives you a maybe a little understanding of what I'm talking about as it pertains to trials and God preserving us through them and not letting us be destroyed by our prosperity-whether it be the prosperity of His anointing, the prosperity of good health, or good fortune, or whatever else it might be.
Those of you that don't think you have enough trials, God can take care of that. But don't feel that you're less in the kingdom because the fact that you may be experiencing a life of blessing and benefit, again, is a sign of His mercy and His grace toward us. That's something that most of us here would like to have. I'd like to have a life with no problems, but I found out that I cause a lot of them so it would be hard for me to have one without them as long as I'm around. Any other questions or comments? Do you guys want to make any comments? I'm sorry, where? Okay.
(Inaudible.)
Pastor Scott: The key to understanding "Does God allow? Is He the source?", you're getting back in again to one of the ancient philosophical questions. To say emphatically, "God does not allow, or is not the source of adverse circumstances," to say that emphatically is to remove His sovereignty. Satan can do nothing that God does not allow. The Scripture says that God does not tempt us with evil. In other words, anything that God would originate-as He did in the life of Job with Satan as the instrument-is not evil, and it's not a tempting to evil. It's based upon the eternal being of God and His foreknowledge and knowing what this is going to work. God never is the source of our destruction. He's always the source of our edification. Sickness, disease, or whatever can be used to edify and glorify God. It's not always a source of death. The Bible says that the thief comes to kill, steal, and destroy. It's an understanding of what's the motive behind this and what's the ultimate purpose for God's allowing these different things. The Lord kills; the Lord makes alive. He's the source. He takes the responsibility of all of these things. But to think that God is up there somehow just arbitrarily making this guy sick and doing this and that-He's not the source or the cause of sickness based upon His being. He allows this and will use it, but it's the byproduct of sin.
Again, you're back in to the eternal perspective of "Why did God allow Adam to sin in the first place?" Those are questions that we're not able to answer, again, based upon our limited knowledge. What we do know is what He declares about Himself-that He's the Father of Lights, the giver of every good and perfect gift. Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Does God make His people sick? God allows His people to be sick. Does He make us-let's let Him be the cause, God making me sick. Why would God make me, His child, sick? For my good. It would be something that would be used because all things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to His eternal purposes. We understand that. To think that this is only the result of sin and only the result of the devil and God's standing back and saying, "I didn't do this and I'm not responsible for it. Hopefully, somehow I can get you out of this. Don't forget that by the stripes of Jesus you're healed." To think that He is somehow separated from that is to remove Him as the majestic being of creation. He is the majesty. He is in power. He is in authority and nothing is done without Him. But He's not, again-it's not the expression of His nature or His purpose toward us. It's the source that was birthed through rebellion, sin, and all of these other things that we're experiencing as consequences of a fallen humanity. Because of that, God uses it for His good and for His glory. To understand it in any greater detail than that is probably beyond our ability. To go into the fact of God, again, "Does God put cancer on me?" Cancer is a fact. Everything that happens, God oversees. "Why me?" We've talked about that-why not? "Who did sin that this man was born blind?" "Neither, but for the glory of God." It's part of the consequence, but God's going to be glorified in this. That's part of, again, the need for us to try to answer and explain all these things and they're very, frankly, not an explanation that we could understand without an eternal perspective. To help us in our understanding, we make statements like, "God's not the source of evil. God's not the source of death. God's not the source of sickness" so that we can understand the purposes of the enemy versus the purposes of God. Ultimately, He's in charge of everything. That might help. Do you guys want to comment along those lines at all?
One of the things I just said reminded me of a little paper I have here. We'll give a chance for some more questions and we can speak more on that if we need to. Somebody gave me this-It purports to be from a book or something that Bill Gates wrote. It says, "A Message For Generation X." I thought some of you would appreciate this. It says, "Bill Gates Rules For The X Generation." It says he wrote a book and he talks about how "feel good, politically correct" teachings have created a full generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept sets him up for failure in the real world. The following rules are rules that he's given for high school and college graduates. "Eleven things they did not learn in school." Regardless of how you feel about Mr. Gates as a person or a business man, you might agree that he's nailed it here. I thought this was interesting for us to see. "Life is not fair; get used to it. The world won't care about your self esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself." I like these. These are good. It sure lets you see you were raised in a different generation and that in Christ, how different we are from the world. Fact: "You will not make 40 thousand dollars a year right out of high school. You won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earn both. If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss. He [or she] doesn’t have tenure." This one I love. "Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping; they called it opportunity." That's good. "If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from them." This is good here too. This is really good. "Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you are. So before you save the rainforest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try ‘delousing’ the closet in your own room." I love that. Here's another good one. This is so good. "Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life has not. In some schools they've abolished failing grades; they'll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to anything in real life.&qu
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