Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Panel Discussion

We're about one day away, it looks like, from getting all of the paperwork signed off on, and my understanding is that once this is all signed off on tomorrow, everything from there is just pretty much a done deal. It's just a formality of going up and being signed off on, which will give us the ability to get a new work permit, and the registration will be finished from that aspect. So, we're apparently only about twenty-four hours away, unless something happens that hasn't ever happened before. We need to pray and believe God, because this is divine favor; it's miraculous, and the enemy would try to stop it in what would normally be a formality. So, don't stop praying; pray more until we get the final word. This is good news, and the enemy's on the run, so we're rejoicing in that.

We heard also that the gentlemen that have been taking up some of what we're doing over there--I can't remember the name; I think I read it in the excerpt on Sunday. Ronnie shared that he's just going full speed with this thing. He said he's just a tremendously busy individual, but he's taken this on. And he says, "This has got to be done. God's in this, and you're men of God, and I want to do what I can do." This guy is overseeing (I think Ron said) about eight hundred churches. Some of them are very large churches (ten thousand members and more), and he's a pretty busy guy. But he's already gone to the president and talked to him. And the president said, "Bring me the paperwork." And so, they were going to go in tomorrow with the paperwork, but some other head of state died in Africa, and he has to go to that funeral. As soon as he signs off on that, then that which they said couldn't be done, as soon as he signs it'll be done. Can you say praise God for that? This is just divine favor. It's just like reading the Bible, if you want to look and see the heart of the king, and see Cyrus' heart turned, and see Pharaoh with a hook in his jaw, and all of the different things that you can see the hand of God moving. That's what we're seeing because of the faithfulness to the Word of God and to prayer. So, don't in any way back off of this. We're really looking to see this finalized, and I think it's going to really bring some glory to Father. And so, it's exciting.

We're going to take a few minutes and deal with some of the aspects of prayer that we've been teaching on. I'm going to be out of town for a little while, and I want to make sure that we're all on the same page in what we've covered on prayer to this point. When we get back, we'll see where we're going at that time, but I wanted to make sure that we're all up to speed there. We talked a little bit about it in men's breakfast, but we kind of went from prayer and went into the fruit teaching more. The men were more interested in fruit it seemed like. So, we'll give an opportunity for some of you ladies to deal with the issue of prayer--some of the guys as we're answering. We were talking in the back, and a few things that stood out that you guys were sharing that you'd like to comment on and areas that touched you.

Let's just talk about prayer in general. I think over all the years we've taught the fundamentals--that prayer is practicing the presence of God, that prayer is initiated and consummated in God. These are just phrases that we've tried to put together that capsulize principles over the years. And as we look at the real purpose of prayer, and we've talked about the abuse-of course, James speaks and says, "You have not because you ask not, and when you ask, you ask amiss, desiring to consume it upon your own lusts." And so, he's talking about two different things. You need to ask. There are things you need to come to Father for, but make sure that you're asking for the right reason. We've been talking a little bit about that--the right reason being the glory of God, not just self-benefit. So, as we've looked at the model prayer that the Lord gave us and saw that we're to pray His kingdom, His glory, I think we need to be honest with ourselves when we pray. We know that there are times that we're going to pray with greater fervor and diligence. The Scripture talks about Jesus; it says He prayed, and then He prayed more earnestly. We all find ourselves in that, and so we're deceiving ourselves if we think that we're always praying with the same fervency and with the same intensity. God knows that, and so we need to know that. But I think we're also fooling ourselves if we think that we're always praying in purity. We have bad motives a lot of times in what we're doing. And so, as we look at those being purified, and we're seeking the glory of God, that's what we've been trying to emphasize in this teaching, along with a couple of the other principles.

Why don't you guys share what stood out to you, and then we'll go from there and see if there are any questions.

Pastor LaRock: You just made reference to bad motives. A lot of times, we have selfish motives, and we have to pray as you were teaching you really made an emphasis of praying for God's will. It's amazing how sometimes you can think you're praying for God's will, but when you really let the Lord show you your heart, you can find out that your motives were not as pure as you thought. I've certainly experienced that as we've been refreshed by this teaching here. You used the passage of Jesus being in the wilderness, and that's one thing that stood out to me. As Pastor was making the point about praying for Father's will and not for our own will. So often when we have trials and we have difficulties in our lives--whether it's difficulties in relationships, or possibly we have physical problems, or whatever trials it may be--trials at work, maybe we need a job; we don't have one; maybe getting along with people at work. We think, because we know God wants us blessed, we immediately assume that He wants all of our pain to go away, and He wants all discomfort to go away, and all dis-ease (not diseases, but anything that would make us uneasy or troubled) that God wants that to go away. We know that He ultimately does, but there are purposes that are being worked. The focus cannot be in our prayer our own personal comfort. "Oh God, I'm uncomfortable in this circumstance. I need you to change it." A lot of times, we think that way, and we approach prayer that way, that Father would deliver us from this discomfort. There are eternal purposes that are being worked, and Pastor asked the question, "Are you praying with purpose? Do you quiet yourself to learn the purposes of God?" And so, that's something that's important when we find ourselves in trials, and we're approaching God, and seeking His face concerning trials, and we're praying for our children, we're praying for our spouses, we're praying for those that we care for in our areas of ministry, and the different areas that we pray. We're praying for unsaved loved ones; we're praying for the people on the prayer list; we're praying for the Africa mission, and these different things. And as we pray, we need to quiet ourselves, and learn the heart of God, and learn the purposes of God. When we're praying for the Africa mission, for example, it shouldn't just be rote prayer, but let God birth in your heart a care for lost souls and a desire to see the gospel go forth with power. Let that prayer be Spirit-anointed and divinely energized by seeking God's heart and His presence, rather than just going through the motions of saying your prayers. Those are some things that came to my heart and mind as Pastor asked that question. Are you quieting yourself to learn the purposes of God? In your trials, in the difficulties that you're facing, are you quieting yourself to see what are God's purposes here? What is it that He might be trying to bring to your attention? What illumination is He trying to bring to you through this trial? What areas is He trying to chasten, purge? So often we just deal with the surface things, and we want the discomfort to go away.

As Pastor talked about Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus was forty days without bread, and certainly many days had gone by where He was hungry, but He never prayed that Father would provide bread for Him supernaturally. When the enemy came with that temptation, He used the Word of God and rebuked the devil because He wasn't interested in being delivered from hunger, because Father was doing things in His heart and mind and working eternal purposes through that hunger. And so, we need to quiet ourselves and let God's heart be revealed to us.

Pastor Scott: Don't you think that's what Jesus was doing? We have a veil over His prayer life to a degree. It's lifted periodically, and we see some of the specific dynamic prayers, but we read so much about Him. It's obvious that He was a man of prayer and yet we have so little to see about the specifics of what He prayed. But we do know that He would constantly be setting Himself aside and praying, and He would pray all night when the disciples were sleeping. He would separate Himself from the community, even the inner circle, as He prayed and as He sought God, shutting the door and praying in secret. That's that quietness that we were talking about, to where here He is with this purpose, knowing He's going to take the sin of the world on Himself, and knowing the cup that was coming that He even prayed that, if it were possible, could be taken. All of this other prayer was preparatory, and that's that quietness. Just set down that agenda and trying to dictate to God what should happen, and when it should happen, how it should happen, and who it should happen to, and being able to just fellowship and worship, "Hallowed be Thy name." So much of that time with Jesus was spent in just worshiping Father and glorifying the plan of redemption, just thanking God for this plan being set into effect. You talked about praying for the African mission and different things. The one thing that we do know that we were admonished to pray about, He said, "Pray the Lord of the harvest, that He would send forth laborers into the harvest." It's interesting; you might ask yourselves, "How much time do I spend praying about what I was told to pray for specifically?" and then, "How much time do I pray about, 'God give me a raise. Which business do you want me to be in? Where do you want us to live? Should I buy this new house?'" And here we're told, "Pray the Lord of the harvest," and we're told, "Don't pray about these other things because your Father knows that you have need of them, but seek first the kingdom." What are we praying about, really? In the teaching, we've been trying to look and say, "Are we praying with purpose, according to the purpose of God?" "Pray after this manner," He said.

And so, that's a little bit of what we were looking at. Pray those things with confidence. I mean, if you want answers to prayer, pray what He told you to pray. He said, "Pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers." And so, we pray that. When He speaks to you and says, "You're one that I want to go forth," now prayers are beginning to be answered, because you're saying, "Okay Lord, here I am, send me." He says, "I want you to go to that business, and I want you to talk to that man." He begins to open doors of opportunity, and doors of utterance are now being opened. And as He's opening doors of utterance, we're walking through, and the next thing we know, we're before the king, or we're before whoever else, and sharing the gospel. That's how our lives are directed through the obedience to the already revealed will of God, and I think that helps.

Richard, you were going to comment, I think, along the lines that we were just talking about, as we were making reference to the agenda aspect.

Pastor Miller: I had three things here; I just want to mention that first. Right in line with what you were sharing, one of the things you asked is, "Are you seeking the answer that often you don't know?" When you come to prayer, and you think you have all the answers, you're not going to hear from God. It's so frustrating, that type of a prayer life, because you're defeated before you even start. I think of that Psalm when the saint of God, the psalmist, was all discouraged because he saw the prosperity of the wicked. He was wrestling with resentment and bitterness. "Well, why are they prospering? Why aren't the righteous prospering?" And he said, "Until I came to the house of God, then I understood." It's amazing how God can open your eyes when you come with a heart that's willing to hear, and when you lay down all of the agendas, and all of the self-perceptions and preferences, and allow God to really give you His heart and to reveal the way He sees things.

Pastor Scott: I was making the comment, I think one thing that's important to clarify, too--we're talking about seeking the "things." There's a difference between praying with our own lusts and praying amiss, as James said, and then praying in intercession like Moses or others would do when the people came and said, "We don't have water; we don't have food." There begins to be intercession there, but we have to understand why. God had already ordained a path for them to be on, and there was a purpose as to why they were in that situation. And so, they were seeking God for the water, or the food, or whatever it was, to accomplish the purpose, not just to have more water and more food. That's kind of the principle. So, we want you to understand as you're reading the Scriptures, don't get confused when you see them praying about these temporal things. We're not talking about that. We're talking about why they were. Nowhere in the Scripture, however, do you find them just praying for abundance for abundance sake. It was always to accomplish the purpose, and that's when you would see the miraculous supply coming in--whether it's the meal and the cruse, the manna, the water from the rock (or whatever it is), the healing of the waters, all of the different miracles--was because God had a plan, and they were on a journey to inherit. So, we don't want to bring confusion in there.

Pastor Miller: A lot of times, that prayer (and you mentioned this several times) is the death process of just coming to that place of quietness, where you can hear His purposes, and see His will, and then pray accordingly.

Some of the other questions you asked were: "Have you been praying with purpose or praying to pray?" which I think was a very relevant question for us because we're so used to praying, and we've set aside times for prayer. A lot of times, we can fall into the trap of thinking, "Well, I've filled my time for today; I've filled my quota," and we forget. "I've done my deed for today, so I feel spiritual now," and we totally lose sight of that prayer is really finding the heart of God, getting as close to His heart as you possibly can, and letting Him change, and cleanse, and transform you. We're not just praying to pray, because Christians pray. We're praying because we want to commune with our Father.

Pastor Scott: Yes, and the praying to pray--we see it here. How many people--at 7:15, there's an exodus. So, is everything done at 7:15? Are you staying until 7:15 because we've tried to set these up as guidelines? Very likely, the Lord spoke and answered, and it could have been at 7:02. Where is that time of being quiet? Where is the time of worship and praise? Are we practicing, or enjoying and benefiting from the presence of God? If so, it can't always be into this fifteen-minute box. If you're in that fifteen-minute box, and it's the same every time, then you're praying to pray. It's now a habit, it's a tradition, it's a formality, it's religion. But real communion--you don't deal with anybody else that way. The people that are busting out of here at 7:15 are hanging out at the planter talking to other people. You don't talk to them and say, "Hi! How are the kids doing?" and then (zoom!) you're gone. Relationships don't work that way. You have got thirty seconds, and you have twelve. At least I haven't seen anybody doing that, it might happen. That's what we want to examine our hearts and in our prayer.

Pastor Miller: The other thing you said that was very good--you said the most important aspect of prayer is not what you ask for, but how you ask. A lot of times we get caught up in that. "Well, gee, what should I ask for? What should I pray? Will this sound stupid if I say this? Will God think I'm a dummy? Will He answer it if I say it this way?" None of that is relevant. The real important thing isn't what you're praying for. The real important thing is how are you praying. Is there the dependence? Is there the submission? Is there the waiting on the Lord? It's kind of like the thing with guidance. If you're how God wants you, He will get you where He wants you. The same thing is true. If you have the proper heart when you go to prayer, God will get you where you need to go in prayer. The most important thing is the heart, the dependence, the faith. That's what really counts in the prayer life.

Pastor Scott: Let's talk about the dependence thing for just a second, because that was one of the real emphases on the prayer teaching. We talked about prayer really being--when you really meditate on what prayer is all about, we really pray because we were told to pray. When you start factoring in (and I don't want to get off course) the sovereignty of God, it really makes you wonder about prayer. And so, now you pray because you were told to pray, and then God is sovereign. And in His sovereignty, He somehow said that, "My sovereignty is going to work within my own sovereign limitations of you obtaining by prayer things that may not otherwise be obtained unless you pray. I could, but I choose not to. So, if you don't pray, you aren't getting it. I could give it to you, and if it has eternal purpose, I can veto this thing, but the law (the rule) is you need to pray to get from point A to point B." And so now, we're looking and saying, "Okay, now; He's sovereign, and yet God's told me to pray." In this ingenious plan of prayer, He's put it into a daily articulating of our dependence. He wants us to come to Him and say, "Give us this day." And so, as we're continually referencing that dependence, and thanking Him as the source, and acknowledging our own frailties, and all of these things, it glorifies Him in the heavenlies. It's something that our boasting goes into the heavenlies, and all the demons are just tormented by our appreciation for Father, because they hate Him. As we're worshiping and communing with Him, it strikes terror in their hearts, because they know that now here's an agent that's tapped the source. It has all these other residual effects. And so, the dynamics of prayer when it's going on is phenomenal in what it's accomplishing in our hearts, in the answers, in the observers in the spirit realm, and all of that's happening when we pray. It's anything but rote, and boring, and ineffectual. I think we have to understand all of those aspects. But I really want to--that dependence is so important. Do you guys want to comment on that aspect of it?

Pastor Heglund: One thing along those lines that's really been a blessing to me through this teaching is just how you emphasized God's heart to us--whether it was the Jeremiah passage (you were dealing with the sovereignty at that point) where God told him to pray after the captivity. But the one verse there in Jeremiah 29:11, "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end." That, and the Hebrews 4 passage, where God was encouraging us to come to the throne of grace that He would give us the mercy and grace to help in the time of need--just realizing that God wants so much more for me than I want. I would limit God in how I think I should be blessed. I think I should have this, and God wants a much fuller experience for me. And I can actually hinder God by not believing this, not trusting in that. My prayers can be hindered because, I think how you put it was, of just a judging, sometimes a subconscious judging of God and not believing what His heart is toward us. Something that's been real freeing to me personally through this whole series is just trusting that when I'm praying not to limit God--whether I'm praying for my wife, or my kids; there's so much more in my own life--just trusting that as I'm praying, "Lord, your will be done," and (as Richard was saying) putting down my own will, because he said you can't pray, "Lord, Your will be done," unless you've made that commitment--not my will, and part of that dependence, but then just understanding, praying with that attitude, that the Judge of all the earth does right. I might be sick in my body and I'm just not getting healed, but I'm trusting that there's a purpose in this. I'm depending on the Lord, and I'm waiting in prayer, and realizing maybe He has a higher purpose. Maybe I'm going to come through this and say, "It was good for me to be afflicted," but just really having that heart to believe that what the Lord said, He means, and He has those thoughts of peace that just wants much more than I could even imagine. He's said He's prepared that for me even in the life to come. So, I really enjoyed that part personally.

Pastor Scott: Yes, the thoughts of peace toward us and the expected end, to where there's that confidence. I asked the guys the question in the back, and it'd be interesting just as a rhetorical question. I wonder how many of us still pray or approach Father like the heathen do, with the attitude, "He just really doesn't want us to have this. We really have to wrestle this out of God's hands. How can I convince God to do this, to get this thing done? I don't understand why He's reluctant, but somehow I'm not going to have to get Him to heal me. I don't understand what's going on here." And it's a natural question, because we have to look at the facts. Number one, can God heal? Yes. Has He declared His will to heal? Yes. He can, He's willing, I'm not. Well, I'd like an explanation. There is no explanation that's simple, because there are too many other principles that have to work, such as, "It was good for me to be afflicted." The fact that this is for the glory of God that this has come upon me"--all of the different principles that we don't know until after God is finished with the process. That's why James says you count it all joy, and you prayed for wisdom in the midst of these things. And so, what we're looking at is questioning and looking at our own hearts, "When I pray do I really believe that God wants the best for me? Do I see a loving heavenly Father Who wants to give me exceedingly abundant above anything that I could ask or think, Whose good pleasure is to give me the kingdom, Who wants to richly give us all things to enjoy, Whose blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places?" Is that the Father that you approach boldly to obtain mercy and grace. Those who come to God must believe that He is, and that He's a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. And so, as you ask that question to your own heart, how do you perceive your Dad? How do you perceive Him in approaching Him? I think that's an important aspect.

Let's pause right here. Any questions along anything that we've touched on right now that you'd like us to maybe make a couple more comments on, or clarify, or questions that may be in another area of the prayer teaching that you think would be beneficial to you? And then we'll go back. Kevin?

Question: Just some clarification some things we've discussed. It may sound a little legalistic. On Tuesday night and Thursday night are nights we specifically set apart for praying for the Body. We've set the time between 7:00 and 7:15 mainly so everybody (some get here earlier, and some get here later), but mainly we focus on that time when everybody can be here. During that time, my question is, especially on those two nights, should the focus mainly be praying for Body members in that time? Everything has it's variables. During that time, shouldn't most of the praying be done for the Body members. I know you come up, and you've got something bothering you, and you need to pray about that and that happens. But the majority of the time, should that be the focus, to pray for Body members?

Pastor Scott: That's what we've tried to set that apart for. And so, when we are here, that time (7:00-7:15) that the majority of us try to get here in that area, was set up for that very purpose. That is to pray for those on that prayer list. Now, if you've got something that's really important, then you can pray for you from 7:15-7:17, or whatever else, as long as you need to be here. But it was put into that area, and part of the reasoning is, as you study the Scriptures, you'll see that there were times of community praying. It's one thing to pray--we can all pray at home, and we all pray as we're going in the way, and pray without ceasing. But you'll find when there were urgent needs that the whole body would come together. When Peter was in prison, and they prayed for him without ceasing, and prayer was made at the church for him. We understand that they came together, and there was corporate prayer, and one puts a thousand and two, ten, etc. So, this is the reason that we have the corporate gathering and some of these specific needs that we say when we're here together, we're focusing on these and we're praying at that time, so that we're all praying the same thing and interceding. Our schedules are different, and everybody tries to be here as much as we can in that timeframe. I've noticed some will get here at 6:30 or whatever, and that's great, and from 6:30 to 7:00 as you're praying, it's good. At 7:00, shift gears, and be in prayer, and realize that in this other period people are calling those names out, and those needs that are there and we're believing God to manifest Himself. That's what that time frame is for. It's based on those biblical principles that we've talked about. So, those are things that it's good just again to refresh our thinking as to why we're doing what we're doing. Otherwise, if we weren't going to be doing that, there'd be no need for us to be gathering, and we could all pray where we are. I'm sure Tuesday's and Thursday's aren't the only times you pray for some of these brothers and sisters. But that's the emphasis at that time.

Any other questions, comments? Yes.

Question: Pastor, you made the statement that you can't pray effectively until you pray, "Not my will, but Thy will be done." How do you truly know when you're praying that way? [paraphrased]

Pastor Scott: Some of that we've talked about, when we've talked about that getting quiet before the Lord, and being able to just come in and rest, and in that time of worship as we're following some of the process of that model prayer. You notice that model prayer starts off with the recognition of Father's majesty and His greatness. And so, we start off in praise and worship: "Father, I just thank you, and I appreciate Your love. Lord, I don't have anywhere else to go, you're my only hope. You alone are the source of life and death. In you I live, and move, and have my being. I can't do anything without you." You're expressing His greatness and your dependence in your worshiping. And then you begin to recognize the purposes of why we're here (the whole duty of man), and so you're saying, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. Lord, I have a lot of stuff bugging me, and I'd really like this and that, but that's not the issue. What can I do to be used better in the kingdom? Help me to see my own heart. Am I moving in an area here that may be in conflict to the eternal purposes?" And then we can, in that prayerfully, "Your will be done, Lord. Show me your will. How am I fitting into this overall plan? I have some things here I want to talk to you about, and I want to make sure that they're fitting into this." It's a preparation of our hearts to address Him in these different areas. So, as we approach Him in that kind of environment, we've quieted ourselves to where now we can hear. We can even hear ourselves, and when something comes out of our mouths, we say, "Oh man, where did that come from? That isn't right." Now you're beginning to see your own motives and say, "Oh, that's not good. Here, Lord, let me take that one back" and we begin to approach it that way. That's one of the processes. There are a number of others. You guys might want to comment along those lines.

Pastor Miller: The quieting is an essential process. And then also, sometimes you're laying down your will, I have found, by faith. It's kind of like, "I believe, Lord, help my unbelief." You're coming and saying, "Lord, I want to lay down my life, and I'm surrendering my will the best I know how to articulate right here, but I know I need a lot more work. But I know what I want to do, and I know that you're going to finish the work in me. I know that you're faithful, and you love me enough to take me through enough trials to knock that self-will out of me."

Pastor Scott: Or, "While I'm laying it down, would you do this?"

Pastor Miller: Right. I don't know if you can ever come to a place in prayer where you say, "Okay, every last ounce of self-will is laid down, and so now I can pray!" It doesn't work that way. God knows your heart, and He knows that if you're one that's pursuing him and wanting to lay down your life in that way, He takes up the slack, and He sees you though. And He's faithful to work out those other areas of self-will one-by-one, but it's not anything that happens overnight. It's a process.

Pastor Scott: Yes, it is definitely a process.

Pastor Miller: So many things we do, we do by faith.

Pastor Scott: Yes, without faith, you can't please Him. The key is, again, the Hebrews passage in chapter 10. It's drawing near with "...a true heart in full assurance of faith, [as Richard is saying there--realizing our motives are not always pure in and of themselves, but look what it goes on to say:] having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, bodies washed with pure water." This is part of that bold access that we're coming in, because Jesus has finished it. Remember, we talked about what we're really trying to do is to get into communion with the Intercessor, the Lord. As He's praying for us, we're praying with Him, the Holy Spirit praying through us with groanings which cannot be uttered. He's the one that knows the mind of the Spirit and the purpose of God. And so, as we're praying in the Spirit and articulating these things, the Lord is praying through us. But part of the prayer process is coming because we are vile, and evil, and selfish; and we need to obtain mercy and grace to help in the time of need. If you recognize that, and are stating that, that in and of itself is the process that Richard just spoke of by faith saying, "My motives may not even be pure right now, but I want them to be, and I need mercy, and I need grace." And Jesus makes up the difference.

Pastor Heglund: I think another just practical test in my own life is just checking the satisfaction level in prayer. Is it something you're hungering for and you're looking forward to throughout the day? And, of course, there are times we're warring. But then, as life goes on, are we content with the Lord? Because when you're dead, when you've laid down your life, there's just such a joy in serving, and giving your life. But when you're not, so much in your flesh is activated. It's a supernatural thing to walk satisfied--just satisfied with his presence. The flesh always wants something. You asked the question in the teaching about that. Are you satisfied, or are you just lusting for more? It was when you were talking about Psalm 145, that the Lord opens His hand and satisfies every living creature, I think is how it goes. When you're walking in that laid down state, you're content with His lordship; you're in that rest. You're taking His burden upon you, His yoke. You're yoked up with Him, and it's easy, and it's enjoyable. I can always just look at that. That's one of the things that I constantly try to examine in my life. Am I satisfied? Am I enjoying my service to the Lord? Or is this bugging me, and that bugging me, and I want to have this, and as soon as I get that, then I'll be happier? Am I just content to serve and be about His business?

Pastor Scott: Those are good points. It's been what we're praying about. What are we emphasizing? Because where our treasure is, is where our heart is. Am I praying houses, lands, family, etc., or doors of utterance, the character of Christ? What am I emphasizing at this time? If it happens to all be temporal, carnal, whatever, then our will is not down. And so, those are some practical things, too. Because the natural man is not, "Oh yeah, praise God! Cross, death, ..." So, that helps.

Pastor LaRock: You can be confident that if things are out of order, Father will chasten you, because He chastens those He loves. Philippians 3 tells us that we should have a mind to be pressing towards the mark, and if we're otherwise minded, God will reveal that to us. I think you can also look at just some of the recent decisions that you have made, what choices you've made. And then, just relating this to what Richard was saying about faith, that desire to--Pastor made the statement, I think you were referring to this: that you can't pray in faith, "Thy will be done," until you pray in truth, not my will be done." That "Not my will be done," that's something that Father works in your heart through that audience that we have with God. If you can think of Jesus praying the Garden of Gethsemane, those were words that were uttered with fervency and with purpose. It wasn't just a flippant thing that was rolling off His lips because it was correct doctrinally. This was agony; this was really costing Him something. And though none of us have ever faced anything of that magnitude, to where we've sweat drops of blood in prayer, Father brings us to our own Gethsemane's and He brings us to a place of death to self. And so, that's something, that "not my will be done" that comes through having that audience with God. It's something that's not just a doctrinal thing that we embrace, but it's something that we come to know by revelation. Father makes that real in our hearts as He draws us to Himself, that we have to die to self-will. Then we pray in faith, and even though it might be agonizing to pray it, we say them. God answers that prayer; when you say, "God, I don't want my will," He'll answer it. It may be very painful sometimes some of the ways He answers it, but of course He's there to comfort us in all that pain but that's something that He births in our hearts.

Pastor Scott: The faith aspect--don't expect to come to the place to where you say, "I have no will," because we do; or, "I have no preference," because we do. What we're talking about is coming to subordinate that, and by faith and humility to come and say, "You know, Lord, there's a lot of stuff, but I know that I'm not in charge, you are and that your ways are better than mine, and so I'm asking again for that grace, that mercy to help in this time of my need. Give me the wisdom and understanding of your heart, your purpose, and I choose follow your way, and not mine." That's how it's done. But we don't come to the place where it's like, "You know, I don't have a will, I don't have an opinion, I don't care." We all do.

Any more questions along these lines? Over here, and then all the way back here--yes.

Question: You touched on it a good part of one of the services about praying for others, family members. I was always under the impression that those who were unsaved or left you, "Let Your will be done for them." Praying for family members or close friends, the Body, praying, "Lord, bless them; give them--not just stuff, but bless them with your will." You spoke to the opposite of that, and it really intrigued me as I was meditating on that the last couple of days. Could you elaborate on that a little more--praying God's will?

Pastor Scott: Where we talked about Jesus praying in the seventeenth chapter [of John], where He said, "I don't pray for them, but I pray for these"--is that what you're talking about? We were making the distinction of how much time people spend praying for the world, and for sinners, and that they would be blessed. The Lord has already stated His will, that He's not willing that any should perish, and that we're to pray the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into the harvest, and we're praying for doors of utterance. So, what we're looking for is, Lord, give me an opportunity to speak the Word in their life, to proclaim the gospel. But we're not praying, Lord, bless them in their rebellion; bless them in their pagan, heathen state. God already has died; He's already given the free gift. He wants them restored, and all of these different areas. So, we're praying now for our own individual obedience to proclaim the gospel, etc., but we're not praying for a blessing of these that are not the agents of that glory that He's speaking of in the seventeenth chapter.

Question: How is it that we--you went into a little detail on how we pray for the Body. We don't just say, "Bless them", when the Lord doesn't want them blessed. Maybe He's taking away a little bit so they can trust in Him.

Pastor Scott: Yes, as we're praying, again, let's say individuals. We have brothers and sisters, and we might possibly know some things of what they're involved in at a different time, and, "Lord, it appears as though they're really needing some financial help here. They're not able to pay the rent." Okay now, before we pray, "Lord, bless them and open the windows of heaven," are they tithing? How can you pray the windows of heaven to be opened if they're robbing from God, and He's put dung in their face? So, to just rotely pray, "Lord, bless them; God, this...," we have to be very careful in those areas. What we pray is, we begin to speak and say, "Lord, here they are, and it appears as though their situation, I just ask that you'd give them wisdom, and I ask that you'd reveal yourself to them, and I ask that your Word would be accomplished in their life," etc., etc. Rather than trying to dictate, we speak these generic principles of God's desire to deliver, and heal, and whatever, without going contrary to biblical principles, because we don't know what's effecting this in their life. They may be experiencing this because of pride in their lives, and God is humbling them, or disobedience (they're not tithing). Who knows? And we're back to this whole eternal realm. So for us to start trying to dictate, and, "Lord, bless them, and give them a job that pays twice as much"--we really don't have any business praying that way, because we don't know. That's the point we were making.

Do you guys want to comment along those lines at all, anything that sticks out to you in those areas?

Pastor Miller: The point that you just made there, I think is a very good point. Paul gives us little glimpses into his prayer life and how he would pray for the church. How he would pray for the church is exactly what you were just describing. Paul wasn't praying for them to get a bigger car, or a bigger house, or a better job. He was praying according to the will of God, and he wasn't trying to dictate to God how that will was going to be worked out and applied in their life. He was just praying for the will of God, knowing that God would work out the details of how it should be applied and how the sovereignty should work out all the intricate details. It's good to read through some of those prayers and model our prayers after that. Now, he was praying for believers. When you're praying for unbelievers, it's a little different, but it's kind of all the same thing. You're praying the will of God for their life and the will of God for unbelievers is that they would be saved and come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Pastor Scott: As you read the prayers, Paul always was praying that they would come to a greater knowledge of God, understanding of the purpose of God, a zeal for God, a purity, the knowledge to know that you're a representative of God. As you read his prayers, those are the things that he's praying for people. Then, once that's all worked out in people's lives, these other things that we're wanting to pray for are all taken care of in the ministry of Lord that we've used as the text for the whole thing of seek first the kingdom, and all the necessities are added. Somehow we thought that prayer is the abundance button, and the promises are necessities. Prayer doesn't really bring abundance sovereignty brings abundance. God chooses in those different areas, in prosperity, in abundance, in these different things, He wants us to all go ahead, but it's in direct proportion to His placing us, gifting us, whatever it is. So, we might be wanting to convey on somebody something that God doesn't want to convey on them, for whatever reasons. So, those are areas that I think help us in our prayer. Does that help some? Good.

Yes, all the way back.

Question: Pastor, a number of years ago you talked about how you pray for your kids and you really when into some specific details of here's how I pray for my family. I don't remember details, but just wanted you to share some specific areas you pray for your wife and kids.

Pastor Scott: I pray a lot as I've shared along these lines that we were just talking about, especially as they're older now--into these areas of coming to that knowledge, knowing why God has placed them as He has and who they are. God sovereignly put them into a family order. I pray that there would be the awareness and the fulfillment of whatever the call might be. I pray the aspect that Jeff was talking about, about the contentment areas of whatever the call and gifts are, that they would be at peace in who they are. You get into traditional things--you talk about how I pray--because my situation is unique somewhat in our family situation. But I thought it was humorous, one of the things that Ronnie said was one of the pastors that he preached over there really got upset with him and Tera because Tera wouldn't come up and preach in the church. She said, "I don't want to," and Ron said, "She doesn't want to." They said, "She needs to come up and give us a word." He said, "No, she doesn't want to."

Again, it's that understanding of, from the ministry aspect, how they fit. They're not called, I'm called. They don't have to answer to the same things I'm answering to. My wife is not Mrs. Pastor. She's Mrs. Scott. She's my help meet, not yours. I pray that they would understand that role, because those are things over the years that they've had to go through. So, that's a little bit of the practical things that you pray--that they would just be able to--the greater knowledge of the things that they've been trained in, as I'm praying for the kids, that they would become experiential in their lives and that it would work. Those are things that I try to just pray about. But, as a rule, I pray in great generality. I pray principles, because I really believe that God has a better grasp on what's going on and what they need than I do. I pray a lot for them in the Spirit, and pray with groanings that can't be uttered. Because of what would be my own prejudices, if I can step back and get out of my mind, and pray for them in the Spirit, it's going to benefit them more than what might be my own prejudices for them. Does that help a little bit? Could you guys comment? How do you guys pray for your families?

Pastor LaRock: There are a couple of things that I'll add to that. One, whenever I think to pray for my family, whenever the thought comes, I'm always reminded to pray for myself, because I realize that I'm an example that they're looking to all the time. So I can't start to pray for my wife or children without praying, "Father, help me to be an example, help me to illustrate for them Christ-likeness," because I realize the impact that I can have by my example. Another thing is just something that I see in the life of Job, just his desire to be a priest and to provide a covering and to be an intercessor for his family. He was offering sacrifices just in the event that his family members may have sinned. We don't offer sacrifices, there's already been One offered. So I just pray, but in that spirit of following Job to see that my family's sins are covered, I just pray that Father would convict my family members of any sin that is in their lives, that their eyes would be opened, and that they would see it so that it could be repented of and covered by the blood.

Pastor Scott: Do you guys have any comments?

Pastor Heglund: I pray every day for both sides of the family, and then my own family. I guess I'm kind of unique, too, in that on the one side of the family is the Pastor, and his wife, and all my family there--just praying that the Lord would give them strength, and rest, and peace, and wisdom in guiding the fellowship, just according to the Word. Then for my wife, praying according to the Word, and for myself a lot in relating to her, that I'd lay down my life in fulfilling my role, and to honor her as the weaker vessel that my prayers wouldn't be hindered. I pray for her that she'd be able to fulfill her role in raising the kids, and strengthening her hands, and giving her that grace. I guess I have more specific prayers for each member of the family, and that I'd have wisdom in training up my kids for God's glory in whatever purpose they might have. And then for my mom and dad, I pray for them different specific things according to their personalities, that God would give them strength, and security in Him and again, just those general principles. I pray for my brother and his wife. I take it pretty seriously, those areas, but I guess I do pray general areas, "that they would find their contentment in you, and be strengthened to bring glory to you."

Pastor Miller: I pray according to the general principles. And then I also pray according to needs, what they're going through at the time, or what are obvious needs in their life, but I pray in the way that you're describing. I don't pray, "God, please make Jon do this, and please make Jessie do this." You pray according to the Scriptures, what you know the will of God is, and how certain Scriptures pertain to specific needs, but you leave the details to how it's all going to be worked out to Father.

Pastor Scott: Right. That's the real safety for our prayers, that as you speak the revealed will of God that you would counsel anybody else that came to you with that specific situation and said, "Can you give me some help in this?" So often, as parents, we become intimately involved with people and we want to now start getting into all of these fine details to fix, and that's sometimes when we can get in trouble. We need to just speak the general truth of this principle, and let the Holy Spirit apply it in His wisdom and from the eternal perspective. It's much more effectual that way, I believe.

Any other questions that you might want to look at? We can take a couple more possibly.

Some of the cool things, if you want to look at prayer, if you go through the epistles and just look at some of the opening statements of the apostle's statements to the different churches. You can begin to see what he's perceiving as the will of God and what's being expressed. Those, many times, become the revelation of what Paul was praying about, and you can really glean a lot from that, that would be beneficial, as well as some of the statements of, "I'm praying for this or that for you," etc. That'll give you a real broad perspective of being able to take hold of the heart of God. Paul really had his finger on the pulse.

Pastor Miller: You can also see how much Paul depended upon that prayer, because he'd make statements like, "I pray without ceasing."

Pastor Scott: Right. And he understood the effectiveness of it. He believed that God was going to effect these things in their lives, but realizing that you don't pray once and it's all over. This is a war. We're constantly needing to make this--and when I talk about this, I'm not talking about repetition, I'm talking about a constant dependence, a declaration of our dependence. "I pray for them". They're just as carnal today as they were yesterday." And so, we're needing to constantly be in dependence and the recognition of that. That's what Paul was saying there--tremendous awareness of human frailty, when Paul said, "I'm the chief of sinners." When Paul was delivered from that spiritual pride, when Paul died to religion, and pride, and what he could do in his own strength, and his agenda, and everything--when he experienced that death, and his eyes were illuminated--you can see it throughout the rest of his life in applying that to the bondage of others and knowing where they were in how they were responding, as you read (by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit) through Galatians, and you see the unraveling of the flesh and how it responds.

And so, as we're talking about these things, don't get discouraged and down because you may not perceive yourself as the greatest, David Brainerd, the great prayer warrior, and "How come I'm not moved to pray eight hours a day?" Don't get under condemnation in these things. But at the same time, continue to pursue, and ask God for the grace, and the mercy, and do better tomorrow than you did yesterday. Yet at the same time, there's not the condemnation. There is the frailty. It is war. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. We're battling, and these are not things that are done easily. We don't grade ourselves on how many hours we've put in, and how many notches are on the rod that budded, and these different things, but we're just dependent. "I need you, Lord. I just don't understand why I'm the weakest one in here, and everybody else has zeal, and a heart for You, and studies, and prays, and obeys, and I'm the only loser in here." Does anybody ever feel that way? Let me see your hands. Hold them up. Okay, put them down. How many of you never feel that way? Well, we're all in the same journey, then, aren't we? And so, encourage yourself. The Lord knows our hearts, and it's by His grace and His strength that it's being done. And so, the glory and the excellency is of God, not of us.

Father, we thank you for the Word and the privilege of prayer. Even now as we so naturally just speak and yet, Father, this was not always available to men. The blood of Jesus has given us this access that we could come boldly. We don't come in fear and trembling, we come as children. We come loved, and accepted. We come with confidence and hope. What a privilege, and what majesty has been displayed in the lordship of Jesus. We boast in that, and we rest in it, and we take nothing for granted. We just want to say thank you, Father, and help us to fulfill your purpose in our lives and for your kingdom, in Jesus' name. Amen.

Before you go, turn to somebody and say, "Pray without ceasing." Amen.

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