Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Panel Discussion

Pastor Scott: Hallelujah! Amen. The guys will be joining us up here. We're going to go ahead and take a little time and share on some of the subjects that we've been dealing with over the last couple of months. We haven't had a question and answer session since the middle of December, and we've covered a lot of ground since then. We want to talk a little about the "Prayer" teaching, and the "Kingdom" teaching. Prior to that we talked about "Worldliness" and we talked about "Forgiveness" and "Giving." Those are the subjects that go back to the last question and answer session. You can flip through your notes and see if you want any clarification on anything along those lines. We're going to see if we can touch some of these subjects and add some more practical application to the subjects that can then keep us moving in this area of being doers of the Word and not hearers only.

One of the things we were talking about, as I was talking with the guys in the back, Chuck had said that as he was going over the home fellowship group reports--from all of the home fellowship meetings, of course, we get not only your papers, that you hand into your deacon that we're able to look at them and go over those, we also get reports from the deacons on how your participation is in the groups and these different areas. It's the way we're able to know the state of the flock, and it's a blessing, praise God. Can you say, "Thank God," for those deacons that are caring for your lives, amen? People that are giving of their time. They are not getting anything for it in the natural, but just a lot of hard work, a lot of headaches, a lot of long hours, and late hours, and they are just doing it as unto the Lord because of a genuine care for your life. Thank God for that ministry that's among us. So that's how we're able to know exactly where things are and how God's dealing in your lives and in your family; it's exciting.

One of the things that stood out to us on this last session, especially of the prayer, was the fact that so many people had mentioned that they really struggle with being able to deal with all of the busyness of their minds and how to combat those areas. I was sharing a couple of very practical things with Chuck as we were coming out, that I think could help you. Let's start off addressing that. Chuck, you might share what your observation was, and the concern; then some of the things that we were practically looking to.

Pastor LaRock: Yes, it really stood out from all the papers and reports how big of an issue that is for people, you all, us all, in prayer. Being able to find that time of communion with Father, and not just putting the time in, or letting the minutes go by, but to really commune with Father. Because if we don't, our lives are not going to be changed. Father is not impressed that you sat some particular place for half an hour. We all know that, whether it's in your prayer closet at home or here in the sanctuary. We have to get to the place where we're communing with Father, and be able to put those distractions aside to where we're really communing with Him. So our lives can be changed, and we can hear what He's saying to the church and be changed. There was that concern. It seemed like a lot of people specified things that have been shared over the years by Pastor Scott especially, that he writes things down. I couldn't count how many of you put that on your paper, as something you have done, that you write things down. So it just seemed like most people were really interested in any practical things that they could get. "How do I deal with this monster of the distractions, the cares that are coming on me from my job, from my home?" It just made me wonder how successful you're being and how much victory are you experiencing when you come to prayer. How much of the prayer time--if you come up here to pray for 40 minutes for example, is 29 minutes spent dealing with the distractions and 10 minutes of prayer, is that kind of an average? If so, then you need to factor that in, realize that you only prayed for 10 minutes and you need to add an extra 30 minutes to the time that you're allotting for prayer or get better at dealing with those distractions. It's something that we need to really be serious about, to deal with those distractions so that we're getting them out of our mind and we're able to commune with Father.

One thing I do--and Pastor, you shared a couple of suggestions as we were coming in here--one thing I do is I try to be disciplined that this is prayer time. There's time to do this, and when I do that, I do that. Then there's a time to have fellowship with people, and when I do that, I try to be there and talk to them. I think we have the tendency to try to do six or seven things at the same time. Then when you come in to prayer, you try to do one thing, when your habit is you've been doing six or seven things. You know, I've had to catch myself at that before. Sometimes I'll be on the phone with someone, and I'll be doing something at my computer or writing a note to myself that's about something else. Sometimes you have to do that. There are exceptions, but as a matter of course, I try to focus on what it is that I'm supposed to be doing right now, and give my attention to that. Then when I come in to pray, if I think, "Oh, you've got to go do this" back in my office or something like that. No, this is time to pray, I can do that afterwards. So designating certain times; this is prayer time; this is time to study my Bible; this is time to read the Word; this is time to read and have devotions in this book that I'm studying, or whatever it is. But how important it is for us to do whatever it is that we need to do to make sure we are communing with Father, or our lives are not going to be changed!

Pastor Scott: Yes, that's the discipline that was put upon the priests as it pertained to the tabernacle, as it pertained to all of the different aspects of the temple, those things were holy, or separate to God. When we come in for prayer, this is a holy time. We're not to allow anything else into this part of our lives; this is holy. If you can approach it that way, it will help you in warring.

A couple of the practical things we talked about, if you have trouble with the busyness of your mind, then don't get here at seven o'clock. Get here at 6:45. Everybody says, "Well, you know, we have to leave at 7:30 because the babysitting's over at 7:30. It is, but it starts at 6:45 and goes to 7:30. So get here earlier. If you're having trouble bringing your mind under, then get here earlier, and take it out of your side, not God's. This is something that's part of the practical things. Another one of the practical things that was just brought to us as we were coming in here--and I want to share with our deacons not to do this anymore--it was brought to my attention that on prayer nights, deacons are passing out things. We have to either say don't pass those out, or you have to discipline yourself not to read them. You don't need one more thing before you come here to pray that you're reading and looking at, that you're going to have to now take five more minutes to pull that down. See, if you come in open-ended, it's not a problem. If you have the luxury to come in like some of us do, like I do, to where I don't leave until I'm done; then it's not a problem. To me it makes no difference. If I get here at six o'clock, and don't leave until 11, then it's no problem. If that's what Father's doing that's how I operate, if you have that luxury. However, if you're going to confine it to a 30-minute capsule, then you're going to have to make preparation to make that holy time, that's God's time. So if it's handing out literature, if you get something, don't look at it. If somebody hands you something, just stick it in the back and don't even look at it. "Well I've got to look at it, I've just got to know what it is!" Whatever, okay, that's cool; then take that out of your time. Those are all different things that human nature has to contend with, and so those are very important.

What about some of the other practical things? I was sharing with Chuck on the way in here, things that will help you out. If you're having trouble quieting your mind, "I'm trying to pray, but I've got all these things going on," this will really help you. Don't begin your prayer with petitioning; begin your prayer time with thanksgiving and worship. You'll find that busyness will be brought into control much quicker than if you're trying to pray about something, pray for somebody, pray, "Lord, speak to me about this," and you've got all of the junk going on around from work or the things that have brought frustration to you during the day. Just come in and begin to worship, and begin to offer up thanks, and you'll find all of those things will quiet themselves much quicker. We enter His gates with? Thanksgiving. And His courts with? Praise. And that's how we come. Those will be things that will practically be able to apply, and quiet you down some. These are some of the things that I try to do, and it really stills your mind much quicker. Any other practical things along these lines that you guys have found?

Pastor Heglund: One of the things that I've been concentrating recently, purposefully, is something that I noticed you practiced a lot, and was encouraged quite a bit, especially being a young pastor when I was helping with the Young Adults. It came up in my spirit again while reading one of Tozer's books. He was talking to preachers, and he was saying it was real hard to just--he was relating to teaching time on a service night or something, to think that you're going to preach because you have a white hot fiery prayer session for an hour before your meeting, and for the rest of the week you've been living for yourself is not going to work. The principle that I've seen in your life and one that's real practical for prayer time is you're not just going to come here at 7:30 and "turn it on," maybe even in an hour, if you've been filling yourself with distractions that you don't need. We have enough distractions that we have to have in this life, the busyness of the end times, and how much more are we filling it with other stuff when we could be meditating? I've tried to turn the TV off more, especially in the evenings, and read a book or read my Bible or something, to where when I go to sleep I've got something that I'm meditating on. Or if I am watching TV, purposing to meditate on something when your brain is shutting down or whatever, just that principle. Also seeing that, like I said at work in your life, to where I've seen days where you didn't have a lot of time to have a set aside quiet time in prayer, but because you're meditating on those principles throughout that day, and the other days of the week you've been getting your times in prayer to when the Lord's got a real cranking day, it's all still there. You're not having to work something up. I think that's real important too.

Pastor Scott: You don't want to involve yourself in crisis praying.

Pastor Heglund: Right, it's not a crisis. Just having something that you're meditating on as you go throughout the day. The praying without ceasing, and so much that we can fill ourselves with.

Pastor Scott: Yes, it's an area that throughout the day, depending on the type of job you have, but if you're-- whatever your job consists of. Some of you that commute, what a great 45 minutes! Instead of getting frustrated, that's a time to pray and meditate, as you're able to redeem that time. Don't close your eyes when you're praying! We've done a lot of driving in these last couple of years. What a great opportunity to be able to meditate and to fellowship with God and mutter the words of God, and allow the things that He's speaking concerning your life and the ministry to go over and over. This is part of what you do, you don't need all of that time thinking about how am I going to sell this guy and what am I going to do. God's going to do it anyway, so just spend time with Him and you'll either make the sale or you won't. Now you need to prepare for your job, but are you over-preparing for the secular when you can take some of that time for the eternal? Those are all things to consider; the time is there. We've just got to creatively use it.

Pastor Miller: One thing that helps me a lot is keeping the end goal always first and foremost on your mind. As you were talking about waiting on the Lord, and how it's being intertwined with the Lord and becoming one with Him, just determine in your heart, "I'm not going to leave until I'm one with Father, until I know I'm one with Him in heart; I'm one with Him in purpose, and I have His mind on what He's doing in my life." Because, so many times that other aspect of what you were teaching comes into play, where our traditions make the Word of God of no effect. We come in here on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it's very easy to establish our own traditions, and it becomes one more compartment in our schedule. We come in here, because this is the time slot that I've allotted for this, and we forget the end goal. We come in here and count down the 45 minutes until it's time to leave. It's coming back to that principle of Jacob, "I'm not leaving and I'm not letting go until I know I've encountered His Spirit, until I know I've changed." If that is the purpose and foremost goal in your mind when you come in, that helps to settle all of these other distractions and cares and so forth, because it's the determination of your heart. This is why I'm here, this is the most important thing of the day, and I'm not leaving until I've truly waited on Him.

Pastor Scott: Okay now, practically, you're a pastor, you've got grown kids, that's fine for you to say. What about the "real people?" That's how people perceive us, that we don't do anything else, and we all know that it's not true; but there's some truth. What about some of the practical things? You know what I think has crept in among us, too--and I've watched it in the fellowship, and it's a sociological thing--we almost think it's 7:30 and somebody's got to go get the kids. So, we both go, because we have to share in this responsibility. Let me ask you this question. If somebody in your house needs to be prayed up and in touch with God, who should it be, the husband or the wife? [Audience response: The husband.] Okay, then send your wife to get the kids and you stay there until you're done. "Well, the kids have to get home." Well, let her drive them home and you walk home. You do what you have to do. This shared responsibility even creeps into our midst, and it's not equal. "Well, it seems like the wives have to do more." They do! "Wives seem to have to work harder." You do! "It doesn't seem right!" It's God! Harder in which way? Now you've got to remember, when God ordained this thing what happened? The wives were caring for the home, caring for the children, etc. as the guy's out pushing a plow, turning rocks over, fighting the mule or whatever. This is part of what is going on for the day, and whatever happens. The wife's going down to the well to draw the water with one kid on her back, one under each arm, the bucket on her head, and she's heading back; pounding clothes on a rock. The guy's prying this thing to get the boulder out of the way so they can grow a little bit of food, and in the midst of all that, God set this order. We've come into a place in this modernized world that we're living in, that we somehow think that responsibilities have changed and they haven't. You're the priest of your home, men. Okay, you have to commute one hour and a half, you're busy, whatever, and there's different things. You're the priest of your home; you do whatever it takes to touch God on behalf of your family. If in the process, mom's having to take up this slack in spending some time over here to watch the kids and you're not there to have that particular input, it hasn't always been that way. Dad wasn't always with the kids when he was out in the field for 12 hours a day. These are some very, very important things that we can't allow secular input to pervert pure doctrine. I would just encourage you in those ways to just give some thought to these things and ask yourself what it is that's stealing this valuable time in prayer.

We know the evening prayer isn't your only prayer. Many of you, get up, you have your early morning devotions or whatever, and some of these things, and those are very important parts. So if you're able to accomplish that on a systematic basis, and you're spending an hour in preparation in good quality time in the mornings, and you're in the evenings up here supplementing and taking that time to just specifically pray for those prayer requests, and the majority of the time you're out, then that's great! But if you're not making it up somewhere else, that's not going to be sufficient, and so I think that's the practical aspects. Any other comments along these lines?

Pastor LaRock: Yes, the psalmist said in Psalm 84, "How amiable are thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts! My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD..." (verses 1 and 2). One thing is to plan and anticipate time with the Lord. You know, if you think in the morning, "Ah, today's Tuesday, so after work I've got to go do this, and then I've got to go do that, then I've got to go pray, then I've got to go do this." If it's just something in your schedule, then you're not going to get much benefit out of it, but if you're going to anticipate it, it's going to be something that you'll find to be more fruitful. If you think, "I'm looking forward to getting there before the Lord in the sanctuary, a place where we go to visit with God, I'm going to worship Him, and He's going to speak to my heart." Anticipate it, just as you would a date with your spouse or special time with your family, or participating in a hobby that you enjoy, "Hey, tomorrow is the day we're going to do this," and there's an excitement in your heart. If you really love the Lord, and I believe most of us in here do, then you do treasure those times with Him. So you should look forward to it, anticipate, "Hey, I'm going to be there tonight in the sanctuary, and we're going to pray," or if it's service night, "We're going to worship God and study His Word." Anticipate. It helps you to begin to prepare your heart so that when you're there, it's not like, "Okay, I'm here, it's another thing in my schedule," but you've been looking forward to it. You've been preparing your heart just as you've anticipated it.

Pastor Scott: You'd be wise not to make any appointments after prayer. Make possible encounters, but don't make any appointments. Do not tell anybody, "I'll meet you at 7:30." You don't know if God's going to release you at 7:30. Most of your contacts are usually within the community here, I'm sure some are without or whatever. Don't pre-buy your 7:45 movie ticket, or be willing to eat the six bucks, because you don't know when God's going to be through with you, that should be the end of the day for you. Prayer is the end of the day. Anything after that, that He releases us, if we squeeze it in, then we squeeze it in. Something that's going to happen, it's the same thing of just being able to say, "If the Lord wills, we'll do thus and so. If the Lord wills on prayer night, then at 8 o'clock, yes we can have skit practice. At 8 o'clock we can do whatever, the Lord willing." But if you'll approach it that way, you're not just sandwiching this thing into your schedule, throwing God crumbs; we'll be able to give it the holiness it deserves. Then everybody that's important is in this building, our children, our brothers, everybody that really matters is in here. When you understand that, they all understand, and so when you ask them, "Do you want to do [thus and so]?" "Yes, let's plan on that." But, you see, there should be an expectation, "You know, God may visit us!" Do you come in here expecting that? Or do you expect to get out of here at 7:30? If you're not coming in with an expectation to encounter God, then you're probably not going to. When you can even approach it that way of, "This is not my time, this is not my life," and that's what prayer is all about, that's a practical way of really understanding and communicating to others. "Eight o'clock, you guys want to meet?" "Yes, if the Lord's done with us at 8 o'clock." That reinforces in everybody's mind that's important to you, what's important. It will be a great way of reemphasizing this time in the presence of the Lord.

Any other comments along these lines? Any questions that might be a practical question, or it can be a doctrinal aspect on the prayer or any of the other subjects also, anything along these lines? Hopefully these practical things will help you some, and be able to get into proper perspective. Any questions on--yes?

As far as the prayer list, are you making reference to? Right. Yes, there's a time, you know, we have the prayer list, and we know that with the prayer list that this is something that we're trying to--we all know we pray individually throughout the day, we have our own prayer times, our own prayer closet that we go into and we all do that. The reason we're corporately called together on Tuesday, that 30 minutes is not primarily a time for you to get your own refreshing and do your devotions. That's the time that we're coming to pray for God to move in our midst in this community; to pray for the wisdom of the leadership here, that we would hear from God, the vision be affected, the different things that we're doing here, and the outreaches. We're praying for those that are sick among us. We're just praying as a community for the community effort here and those are the times that we're specifically dealing with. Any time after that designated period is--and again, we're not being legalistic. If God is dealing with you about something, and He's speaking to you, praise God, in those different areas, you can't say, "God, you can't talk to me now, I've got to pray according to this list," but we're primarily coming in for that purpose. As you study in the Scriptures, you can see the difference between individual and communal prayer. When they were praying for Peter in prison, they came together for that purpose; they were all praying for the same thing. So that's where we focus on that list. The thing that you'll find--and the question was asked also about our own agendas or something that we're looking to pray, it's very important that in the teaching we talked about understanding what the will of God is. As long as our agenda is in agreement with the Word, then it's His agenda. It's when we start trying to enforce our own will through quote, "faith or prayer," basically what that type of praying begins to be is a reinforcement of self-will through self-deception, "I heard from God." You come in believing and knowing what you want to do, what you want to hear and you get some kind of an assurance about it, and you think it was God. It wasn't, necessarily. Those are some things that we have to be careful of when we're setting our own agendas or going to pray something through that we don't have the general revelation of God's Word on. Is that answering the question some; was there anything else to it?

So it's very important, as we're going to pray, make sure that again, the model prayer, as we begin to come in thanksgiving, we begin to worship, we pray for His Kingdom, those are the things that focus us now on being able to pray in His name, according to His will, as it pertains now to anything else we're facing: a vocation change, the unsaved loved ones that we have, the direction for our children. All of these things now become much more clear in the administration of our prayer in any of these subjects, as we've died to ourselves in the praise and worship part of encountering God, and I think that helps. Any comments along those lines? Any other questions? Yes?

Okay, how do we know whether this is the voice of God and not something that we're just anticipating, we want to hear, we want done, it's our will, and these different areas? Again, it's so important to know the Word of God, to realize that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of every prophetic word, whether it's the written revelation to us, or anything we might hear within ourselves intuitively, we have a more sure word of prophecy. Within that more sure word of prophecy, we have the life of Jesus, and we focus on that and say, "Where do I find this in the life and the ministry of Jesus? Where has He lived it, spoken it, whatever?" Everything that really pertains to us fulfilling our responsibilities in the Kingdom is seen in Jesus' life and in His teachings. He didn't come to destroy the law. What did He do, He came to? Fulfill the law. So everything that is the law was fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus; so we can find it all fulfilled. We find the practical living of the revelation, whether it be Levitical, the Mosaic principles, whatever they are, in the life of Jesus. So we always go back and compare every decision, and everything we hear in prayer with the life of Jesus. He always boiled it down to what? "I didn't come to do My will, but the will of Him who sent Me." Is what I'm doing bringing glory to the Father, or is it bringing glory to me? I don't mean fame and recognition. I just mean glory in the fact this is self-gratifying and this is self-rewarding. The motive begins to be self-contentment and all of these different things. Anything that begins with self, there's no place for it in the Kingdom. That's how in prayer, if we hear anything, "I really believe that God is motivating me to be pre-eminent among us." That might be a word from the Lord, how do we become pre-eminent, how do we become the greatest? To become the servant of all. Okay, we took care of that, didn't we? So that didn't mean, "I've heard a word from the Lord, and my brothers and sisters are going to bow down and do obeisance to me, and this is the word." So now I'm building my throne here in the sanctuary, and I've heard from the Lord. If you want to be the greatest, start serving, then you'll know you've heard from God. So that's how we do it.

Pastor Miller: You were sharing the importance of the Word, and just a quick comment on a couple of things. One is, in the Garden of Gethsemane as you referred to Jesus saying, "Not My will, but Thy will." I'm sure that it would have been very possible for Jesus to convince Himself that it was God's will to call down those angels.

Pastor Scott: I could convince myself of it.

Pastor Miller: Yes, and you could hear all sorts of voices, maybe have a hallucination or two and call it a vision.

Pastor Scott: Counselors, "Not so Lord." Right?

Pastor Miller: Yes. So you can--the starting place is always that point, "Not my will." You've got to come with an absolute surrendered heart, with all of your preferences, desires, wishes, and agendas on the altar.

Pastor Scott: He knew what the mission was from the beginning, so when the pressure came in, He didn't lose clarification. I think a lot of us don't understand what our mission is, and that's what I was trying to communicate this morning. As citizens of the Kingdom, here's our mission: we're to serve one another, we're to be ambassadors, we're to be salt, and we're to be light. Anything that distracts from that isn't the purpose. Clarifying our purpose from the beginning makes the decisions under pressure easier to make.

Pastor Miller: I think it's also important to use the Word of God in prayer. Don't come into prayer and just make your mind blank and say, "Okay, I'm listening for a voice." Actually pray through the Word of God, and let the written Word be the spoken Word that's going to speak to your heart in that time of prayer.

Pastor Scott: I actually pray the Word of God. I have throughout my Bible--and I'm sure you guys have yours marked and all of the different things that we have, you can look for instance at my Bible. If we were sitting here, certain things would stand out to you, as you look at that page, right? So if I'm in a place where I really want to worship the Lord. I'll open primarily to the Psalms, and I'll just begin to pray. I'll look down at a Psalms in the area and you know generally how the Psalms are divided. I like to do a lot of praying out of the 30-(30-39) chapters in the Psalms and some of these areas. As I come in here and look down for instance, my eyes fall on this page, and as I'm just wanting to worship, and I'm just wanting to pray, my eyes will fall down and I'll just begin to pray the Word, "For ever O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven." "O how I love thy law! It is my meditation all the day." Then you go down and, "Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way" (Psalm 119:89,97,104). And you begin to speak the Word of God, and you're muttering, meditating upon the Word, that's what it means to mutter the Word. It begins to prime your spirit, then God will speak to you through these things, and that's how we pray. Is that what you do a lot?

Pastor Miller: Yes.

Pastor Scott: That's how you pray the Word of God and you speak. As you go into the Psalms and you speak the Word, "Order my steps in Your word, let not any iniquity have dominion over me." It sets something off in your heart, and your fellowship with the Lord. So those are some things that are important, that's some real good practical advice. Any other questions on prayer or any of the subjects we've been teaching? Yes?

Over the years, when the children were smaller, back in those years, of course, my life was very busy. Our household was basically sucked up in the draft of the direction I was going. Everything in our household was focused 100 percent on what I was doing and what I was doing was 100 percent focused on the Kingdom. So everything, everything we did, was based on the next meeting, the next miracle rally, the next television program, the next whatever, and that's basically how my children grew up. They came with me. So many people will say, "Well, the children have to get in bed at 8:30 and take a nap." They might have been taking a nap under a bench at the television studio that was Monday. On Tuesday their nap was down at the Hilton at the miracle rally. So many of us, you're asking about ourselves as pastors, this is our life; nothing secular has any priority at all. If there's something secular that happens, it's because at some point in our lives a void. I know where I am right now; I have more free time, secular time, than I ever had. The thing I've been really asking Father over the last year is, "Lord, I'm asking You to open doors of utterance for me. I'd really appreciate You stamping out all of this secular time." Just waiting on God to give me opportunity. Those opportunities that I was doing are not being afforded to me right now, so I'm waiting for them again, and excited about it. Some of the most enjoyable time I've had over the last years, I've loved the time that we had in India and in Africa, where we were going 14 hours a day preaching; that's what I enjoy doing. When Father opens a door, we go through it. That's what I was sharing with you all: pray for the ministry, pray for doors of utterance to be opened to us, for all of us, that we can go. But that's how my family was brought up. So when the kids were being raised, everything focused on the ministry 100 percent. Does that kind of answer?

Do you guys want to comment on that? Things are different. Janet--you ladies can identify with this--she would fix a meal, and I wouldn't show up. Why? Somebody came in for counseling; somebody needed ministry. Now you can either resent that or thank God for it. Those are the things that, as God ordered our steps over the years, the Kingdom is first, the ministry is our life, and whatever Father says to do, we do. Those are the things that I can very frankly say our household never--Janet and I in the 30 years we've been married--it's never had any semblance of "normalcy" from what secular people say is normal. Yet, the other day, my unsaved grandmother was talking, and she said, "You know, you and Janet have the best marriage I've ever seen of anybody." Now she hasn't seen that many because she's only 93, but her observation was, "You guys have the best relationship that I've ever seen in a married couple." That's a testimony to people, and these are the things from our whole family, and yet here's a lady who did all of the washing, all of the cleaning, all of the preparation of the kids, all of everything while I'm out doing my thing and then they come with me. I come home at 6:30 or whatever, she's got everybody ready to go, we jump in the car and head to the miracle rally, head to the television station, head to the New Adventures In Prayer, head to whatever it is. We go down there and we come rolling in at 1:00 or 1:30 in the morning. The kids sleeping in the back, you haul them in, and you start again the next morning. Never a day of anything but thanksgiving of what God's given us the opportunity to do. Just giving you an idea, that's what our lives have been.

Am I--oh, did Janet not come in? I was going to see if I represented that properly. Steve, you watched most of it, would you say that's pretty fair representation?

Pastor Gardner: Yes.

Pastor Scott: And we didn't have family time and all these different things. We didn't have a dime to go on vacation, so that wasn't distracting. So that's what we did. You know, those are probably, I think, the best representation. Steve watched it all and can pretty much verify that. What do you guys have? Do any of you want to comment on that? Things have changed; we're in a different place right now in the ministry. Personally I'd love to see God change it, I'd love to see things begin to move here in such a way that we had no spare time other than everybody 100 percent wide open for the Kingdom 'til you need God's grace to sustain you. People talk about burning out, I went over the line at one point there, and I've shared that testimony, but it's hard to burn out when you're moving in grace. I want to finish the race wide open, and those are some of the things that are on my heart, that's what I'm praying for. Right now we're at a place where, like I said, there seems to be a lull. I'm just kind of hanging, just saying, "Okay Lord, I'll kick around and do some of this stuff until You tell me to do something else." That's where I am in my own--Steve did you have any comment?

Pastor Gardner: I was going to add to some things you said about verifying your own life. One of the things that I can say I observed over all those years was that there was only one agenda, and that was the will of God. I think that's where a lot of the discussion this evening's been about prayer. Of course, I think that's what part of Barbara's question is here, but I think the agenda is the killer to a family just as it is in prayer. If we have an agenda, we've got the meeting at 7:30, a counseling thing, we've got skit practice at 7:45, we've already got a set schedule, and that's the killer. There are things that we do have to do. You do have to go grocery shopping. In Barbara's case, she's a single mother, so she can't do that from 8 in the morning 'til 5 in the afternoon or whatever her hours are, that does have to be done, but if there's...

Pastor Scott: Or you can fast.

Pastor Gardner: Yes, or you can fast, but it's really what's the need at the moment? I may have something scheduled, because there's nothing wrong with the schedule, but the schedule cannot rule, it's there.

Pastor Scott: Yes, I think that's the one thing you've probably seen over the years is that we have a direction, but we're not dictated. Whatever God says at the moment, that's what you do.

Pastor Gardner: Right. And whatever you may have planned to do at that moment will eventually get done most of the time.

Pastor Scott: Yes you know it just has to be that way. I know in the things where the Lord's spoken to us the last two times to go to India and then to go to Africa, we had things that had been planned for those times, and had been planned and scheduled for over a year, and within two weeks before departure God said, "I want you to go there." The thing that was planned for a year was replaced and we, just said, "Okay," and we go. That's how you live your life if you're going to be seeking the Kingdom first. As the agenda questions, I think that's very important, the Lord directs our paths. We make plans, and then God sets us on course. The best we can understand, we're setting a course and then fully aware that we don't have it all right. We don't see it clearly, and in the midst of that direction God will define, then, very specifically every daily decision that we're making, and I think that's important. None of these guys want to divulge their lives.

Let's go ahead, anybody else? Yes?

Pastor Scott: As he was sharing, the fact of the busyness, as we shared the practical, come in through thanksgiving and worship and that will still this thing a little quicker, and then as you spend that time in His presence, you begin to pray for others. So we're laying down our lives and serving, and I pray for some people on that list all the time, and some I don't. We shared with you, pray as the Spirit leads you. The ones that are very, very critical in different areas, then I pray for them continually, and these are some of the things that some that are facing terminal situations or some critical things. Those that are facing the loss of kidneys and the war that Becky's going through, and with Janet, and some of these others. These are things that you're going to stand in the gap for. Others, they are very real needs and that's why they're on the list and we intercede. God will lead you at times to be moved and to pray. Sometimes you'll just go through the list and recognize everyone, but the question being: don't leave until you've encountered God, don't leave until you've been able to come in like Jacob and leave like Israel, a warrior, a prince with God. We all know those times of when you come in and you're weary or you're anxious or those different things, and you walk out of here in perfect peace. Everything's put back in proper perspective. You don't leave until you're in that place, until you know that God has spoken to you, and there may not be any great feelings of anything, but there's the assurance. There's the knowing that God has encountered you, and His Word has come to you, and you can walk in the strength of that, and now you're ready to go. Until you leave here strong, assured, then why leave? Because His ear is open to the cry of the righteous. The effectual fervent praying avails much; it brings about those areas to where we're not anxious for anything any longer, and that's the assurance we want when we're at that peace. So I would just encourage you to realize that you're not through praying until you have that assurance, that peace of heart that everything, now, has been released from your hands into His, your strength into His, you've recognized your weakness, you recognize His strength is being perfected in it, and now you can go home. Those are some of the assurances we have. You guys want to make any comments along those lines?

Pastor LaRock: I was just thinking, another practical thing that I do is I try to be sensitive to the Lord to what He's wanting to say to me through His Word and read accordingly. That is, I'm not on the "through the Bible in a year plan" to where I'm going to read today from 2 Kings chapter 17 regardless of what it is that Father is doing in my life right now. I'm meditating on what Father is speaking to us as He's leading the flock through the teachings from the pulpit, and then also just aware of the needs that I have in my own life, aware of the needs that I have for wisdom and guidance and the responsibilities that I have spiritually. So I trust that Father will direct me by His Spirit so that He can refresh me in areas that are pertinent, and do my best to be sensitive to what it is that Father would be speaking to me that day. Maybe for several days in a row I'll be going through one particular book in the Bible. It's not every time I come in for devotions that I'm expecting God to speak. Maybe it was Proverbs 21 in the morning, and in the evening I'm praying. It may go for several days where I'm studying a particular book or a particular Bible character, studying their life. So that's just another practical thing I do is to try to be sensitive to pertinent--what the needs are at the time that I have that I sense in my own life for my own spiritual strength and refreshing, and also to carry out the responsibilities that I have as a father, as a pastor, as a husband. So just try to keep the Word fresh and alive that way by being sensitive to what the needs are. How is Father directing me, what's He speaking to me at this time?

Pastor Scott: Any other questions? Yes?

I think everybody deals with that. The key is to get it early when the thought comes in. Take it down immediately, say, "No, you aren't doing that to me here. I'm here to worship God." You discipline, then, your mind and at that time, now, you focus on whatever you have to do, because your mind can be controlled through the inputs. At that time rather than just singing, if you're getting distracted, rather than trying to close your eyes, open your eyes, look at the words, and now the mind is brought back, and that's a very practical thing. You keep your eyes closed; you're not having any sensory input, and that thing's more prone, now that it's out of control, to continue that way. You can give some sensory input and it will focus the mind back and it will go from there. That's one of the practical things, but catch it early before the mind keeps wandering. Then challenge it, "No!" Say to yourself, "No, you're not doing that!" Let your spirit say, "Hey, straighten up. Who do you think you are? You're not in charge here." Those are some of the things I do. Anything practical you guys can suggest?

Pastor LaRock: "Bless the Lord O my soul, and all that is within me." One of the things I do too is just, in addition to what you're saying there is, think about the words that we're singing. A lot of times we sing songs--we've been singing some songs for twenty years or more, so we've sung them a lot of times, but still the meaning is real, and it can be fresh to you every time you sing it if you let it, because the meaning is still alive. The songs that we choose here are songs that have a biblical meaning, they have a biblical basis, so they are doctrinally sound, and they bring edification. So even if you've sung the song 200 times, to just think about what you're singing, and something, I find a lot of times as I do that something new will stand out about what we're singing that I hadn't thought of maybe for a long time, and it refreshes me on that occasion. So just thinking about getting my mind back on what are we singing here. If we're singing about holiness or it could be just some simple song, but you begin to once again to remind yourself of the majesty of God and how holy He is. So just practically thinking about the words we're singing because they are chosen because of the meaning they have and not just because they have a nice melody, or this one seems to get the people juiced up. That's not what it's all about; it's about worshipping God and praising Him, so think about what you're singing.

Pastor Scott: Amen. The mind is an amazing thing. I can be singing the chorus, reading my Bible and thinking about something else all at the same time. I find myself doing that during worship sometimes. I'm worshipping, and I also want to hear a fresh word. I don't know of a service that the Lord doesn't speak to me during worship to give me more clarification on what the ministry is supposed to be to the body at that particular moment. It happens all the time. So as I'm worshipping I'm not only involved in that, but there are times when I can be distracted in it. Like I said, I can be singing the words--because the mind's amazing, we've memorized all of this stuff--so I'm singing the words, I'm reading something else while I'm singing the words and also wondering why that person's causing a commotion back there on that back row. Because you see, we've got to watch you guys during this whole thing, too. There are a lot of things that can distract you, so those are some of the things that could be helpful. Any other comments?

Pastor Heglund: One of the things that I do is take stock of what is going on at different times. I know to cast it down right away, but there are times after worship where I'll just know, "Man, I didn't have a very good worship time," and just wonder, "What's the deal?" A lot of times I find the reason it wasn't so great is because my treasures are a little out of whack, or my priorities; there's a hobby that's taken precedence and now that's getting in my brain more than the worship time. My treasures are not in order; my first love is getting out of whack to whatever degree it might be. So really letting the Lord speak through that, sometimes I've really gotten a wake up call because I'm thinking, "Man, why is this so difficult?" Then I think about well, what's popping into my head? Well it was this movie that wasn't anything questionable maybe, but it's just I've been letting myself get distracted by attractions, and that's what comes in. What you're full of, it's that law, and you reap what you sow. So whatever you've been sowing a lot to, that's a lot of times what keeps kicking back in.

Pastor Scott: The one thing that you do know is that those thoughts aren't coming from nowhere; you've put them in there. So whatever it is, it's work--we're not talking about things that are evil necessarily. We're just talking about the weights and different areas of what life is all about, and everything that you put in there. What's in there [your thoughts] in abundance is what's going to rattle around; whatever is then important to you is what's going to emerge. That thing that's on the back burner, that job, that next guy you're going to try to deal with or whatever it is, and it starts coming up in those different areas. The disciplines are very important, to where you say, "No," you pull that thing down, and say, "No, you don't have any place here in the house of God." Be jealous for this holy place and this holy time, and do the spiritual warfare necessary. I think realizing that Satan's going to try to invade this place with thoughts, and if we can begin to see this as a holy time, and to take it personal, and to war with it, we'll pull a lot of that nonsense down that's been given place in us.

Pastor Heglund: And pulling it down ahead of time. You can't always just pull it down here; it's your life when you're not here that starts creeping in, I think that's the point. When the Lord's my treasure and He's everything to me, worship is just the most incredible thing on the planet.

Pastor Scott: It's like breathing.

Pastor Heglund: Yes, it's breathing, it's easy, but beyond easy, it's just a great time. When something else is in there, it can be a real wrestling match.

Pastor Scott: Yes, it's an indicator that priorities are out of whack. Any other questions or on any of the teachings, any of the doctrine of the Kingdom, or the aspects of prayer?

How many of you have sensed from the teaching a need to stir yourself up in prayer? How many of you realize there's been a need for that, and we may have as a community been going through the motions, and that our prayers have not been as effectual and fervent as they should be in light of the war that we're engaged in. It's important. I believe the Lord had a word for us, and wanted us to stir up the gifts that are in us, and so that's vitally important.

Any other questions? We'll give one more chance here. Anything along any of the teachings that you might want clarified? Any other comments that you guys want to make on the teachings or anything that have stood out that would bring clarity for us?

Pastor Heglund: One thing just stands out to me even when we have panels a lot of times, is how few questions there are because we're so well taught. In this teaching one of the things that you really admonished us over and over again is that the most important part of praying is really that you do it. We know the answers, most of us in here could be sitting on the panel probably, and just how you've admonished us the reason most people don't pray--I think more people know about what praying is, the different principles, than they do about practicing it, is because it's difficult, it's hard, it takes work and effort, and you've got to pull things down and enter in. You did the teaching on the fight versus the rest.

Pastor Scott: It's a scary thing to come into God's presence, because a lot of us, whether we like to admit it or not, and it may not even be something we're aware of, but a lot of people don't really come into the presence of God because they're afraid He's going to ask them to do something they don't want to do. "Why don't we just keep this relationship casual? I've got my agenda and I'd appreciate everything You can do supernaturally to affect it." The fact of the matter is, when you come into His presence, you're going to see that you're a man of unclean lips, you're going to understand the need you have of daily crucifying this flesh, that there is no good thing in you, that your motives always have to be checked, that there has to be an illuminating of the Word of God on a continual basis or you will revert back to carnal behavior. You lose momentum; you're going to die. Prayer is what keeps all of that real to us. When we encounter the presence, we realize how vile we are, how frail we are, and that's just not a real comfortable thing. People aren't always--that's why it's hard to sort all of these things out when you leave with that limp and you've encountered God. You know a lot of us wrestle with God; it's not enough to wrestle with God; you need to lose! You will lose! But I'd encourage you to give up and not be defeated, because God will defeat you, too, and you don't want that brokenness, there's no remedy for it. The stiff neck, when it breaks, there's no remedy for it, and He'll break your stiff neck. So it's very important for us to realize that privilege of prayer, coming into His presence and cleansing ourselves, clarifying His direction for our lives and all of these different things. That's what makes effectual praying, and that's what brings us peace. There's no greater peace than to be able to just surrender and say, "Not my will, Thy will be done."

Father, we do thank You for the Word of God. You said, "Men ought always to pray." Not talk about it, not study it, not mentally assent that it's good and effectual, but to pray. Lord, we understand that all of our prayer isn't equal, that there are times when we need to set ourselves apart and focus and pray more earnestly. Give us the sensitivity to that, Father, and an ability to respond to the leading of Your Spirit. Father, that we would enter Your gates with thanksgiving and Your courts with praise, and that we would come without agenda other than seeking first the Kingdom of God. Help us to realize that none of us is any different than the other person in here. We all have the same propensity toward sin; we all have sin in our members; everyone of us is bent toward selfishness and each of us has to equally die to self. None of us has an easier go of it than others. The grace is available to every person who focuses, and hungers, and thirsts for righteousness; for You will then fill us. You've given us the appetite; help us to respond and move toward You. If we draw nigh to You, You'll draw nigh to us. Let it be practical, functional, and bring fruit to Your glory, Father, we ask in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

Before you go, turn to somebody and say, "Effectual praying avails much!" Amen. Go in peace; God's love go with you.

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