Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Satellite Pastors Panel

Pastor Chuck LaRock: In our conference the past few days--we always enjoy getting together and watching Forbe and Rob fight some and stir up old traditions. It's always a blessing.

Pastor Forbe Carlson: I just felt this surge of grace. God is so good.

Pastor Chuck LaRock: So we've had a great time of fellowship, and just having our lives continually knit together is always a joy and a blessing. They're playing games with us back there.

I think to start tonight, maybe we'll just let the guys share a little bit about some highlights of the past year or maybe just some outstanding testimonies that would come to mind. I know Forbe was sharing a couple of things yesterday that really blessed me, and I know you all like to hear: what's the Lord is doing in the different churches.? We hear about Africa quite a bit, but the reports from the satellite churches here stateside we don't give as much. I know you guys always like to hear: what's going on, and what's the Lord is doing.?

Rob's got a good group down there in Discipleship Training that they were sharing a little bit about today. The group is growing in size and that's a blessing. So it's always good to hear. Just what are some of the things that really stand out to you that the Lord has done in the ministry in the last six to nine months? Maybe just an overview or just some outstanding things. Jim, you've shared recently some of the good reports from Saturday-night Sunday School, and those are always a blessing, s. So whichever one of you guys wants to jump in here first.

Pastor Jim LaRock: Well, I'll go ahead and pick up off of that, the Saturday-night Sunday School. I mentioned it before; it is the outreach that we have to the youngsters in the neighborhoods. We gather up the kids, ages five through twelve, though not uncommonly, we've got parents who would like to shuffle off their four-year-olds, and we're wondering if they're even that sometimes. We gather them on up, and--we were talking some about it--it's a precious ministry in that we have a unique opportunity to sow into the hearts and lives of youngsters, the gospel message: Jesus, the Creator, the Lover of their souls. I can never forget Pastor Scott's testimony of how he was touched at a very young age by someone in his neighborhood who opened up her home to the youngsters coming home from school to tell them about Jesus. A seed sown at a young age that is, to this day, reaping consequences, reaping benefits, here, and multiplied thousands around the world are reaping the benefits of seed sown by an obedient individual.

We're grateful for that opportunity. It's also a difficult ministry in that sometimes we have but a week or two. Families move; in many cases they are, very characteristic of our day, splintered homes--families moving about, here one week and gone the next. My son Jim was telling me about an incident that took place a couple of weeks ago, picking up a six-year-old who was being cussed out by Mom as they were getting into the van. The youngster was obviously troubled for a good part of the evening, but then as the evening went on Jim took some time to sit down next to this youngster and just asked how he was doing. He was still troubled; the people at Social Services said that they couldn't live with their mommy anymore. Heart wrenching stories, and that's one of dozens of examples that we get on a weekly basis of youngsters who Father gives us the privilege and opportunity to show them His love, His care, and sow seeds. Each week they learn a memory verse; they take home a little craft that they've done, a bookmark or something that would hang on their door or stick on the refrigerator. A lot of seed being sown in the ministry there.

The folks in the fellowship are very faithful and very committed to it and grateful to Father for the opportunity. In the fellowship, among those who are part of the church, the Lord-- I guess I'd express it this way: there is a certain glamour--and we talked about this here in the last few days, too--there's a certain glamour to a new work, or to evangelism, to touching the lives of folks that we don't reach every day. Certainly there is a natural and a spiritual desire to reach out to souls that are so obviously hurting, but my daily joy is seeing the people of God grow in His grace, and that just continues to take place. As I've shared with Pastor on so many occasions, our desire is to see the work there--and it's ongoing--patterned after what takes place and what has operated here for so many years so successfully as evidenced by the fruit being borne in your lives. I shared with Pastor what a privilege it is, what a blessing, what a benefit, it is for me, as a pastor among a younger congregation, to be able to look and see the benefits, the fruit. Certainly the labor is not in vain. The Word of God works; it's alive and powerful, and as it's sown on good ground, the folks there, as many of you have had opportunity to meet them--they're good folks that love Jesus as you do and are maturing in their walk with the Lord, and it is a rich blessing to see their lives conformed.

Maybe I'll share just a moment, if I can take just a moment more. I know, not uncommonly, a number of you ask about the relocation of the fellowship. As many of you have come to know, even with all that's involved in developing plans and seeing through the county process for the renovation, the reconstruction, that's coming up here, it's been a lengthy process in design and review and redesign and re-review. The folks are looking forward to it. We're in our second submittal, our resubmittal, to the county, and our hope and anticipation is that we'll be able to break ground somewhere in the next ninety days, so the people are very excited. They've been giving very faithfully. Just under eighteen months ago, I put it before the folks to double up on their giving, and they have done that and more so. Our Joash Cchest is now bulging out at something over $160,000, and it's a rich blessing to see the faithfulness. Almost without exception people have given a full 10 percent of their household income. Those of you that are familiar with the congregation, there are households with a couple of parents and two, three or four children, that are making ends meet on household incomes that might range between $22,000 to $30,000. They're double tithing and giving offerings on top of that, and Father is meeting all the needs. It's a blessing of His faithfulness and the faithfulness of God's people to provide, and it's exciting to see what Father is doing.

Pastor Scott: Praise God. Amen.

Pastor Chuck LaRock: We just started off with letting the guys share a couple of good reports from the past six to nine months. Jim went first.

Pastor Scott: Praise God. Great. Forbe.

Pastor Forbe Carlson: A little over a year and a half ago I just felt really strongly concerning an opportunity to minister at a retirement home in the area. I think I've shared part of this with you before; it's one of those things that the Lord laid before us--the widows and the orphans--and you can't see the need and not reach out. We looked at going towards a prison outreach at that time and just haven't felt any real burning inclination towards that, and so we started ministering in a retirement home every Sunday afternoon. We actually take a number of the residents, in their wheelchairs, up to one central room. It's sort of a locked- in area where the people there have dementia and Alzheimer's, and so they can't really leave without getting, well, MIA. They still sometimes get out, but it's not my fault. But anyway, it's really grown. We've seen a number of people from that particular group pass away over the last year and a half, but at the same time, just really seeing the group grow. It's actually my biggest service each week, and now we have a number of people who are ambulatory who can actually walk there themselves. They've been inviting friends, and some of the people have family members that have come at different times.

We've really become a presence there, where the staff is so grateful and will sometimes just call and say how much it means to the ones who are in the Alzheimer's unit. When we come you can see, sometimes, a flicker or a spark when we begin to sing. Sometimes people that are nowhere--it's just so sad--but yet when you begin to sing they know every word to the hymns. Their eyes just light up, and it's just really been a neat thing.

About a year ago I was starting to feel a lot of sickness on Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Three services on Sundays were really beginning to get me down physically, and I was just asking the Lord if He still wanted us to do this? I just couldn't get it out of my heart, and He reminded me at that time--I went back in thought and remembered that my very first memory of my life, as I could think back, was when I was two years old and my grandfather took my brother and I--my first memory is when we were pulling up in front of a retirement home in Brooklyn, New York for my brother and I to sing. As I remembered that, I thought, "Well, you know, maybe this is something that Father still desires for us to do." I just received a real strength from it; there's a grace involved, and it has just increased.

We've picked up another retirement home during the week where we have a service and have started reaching out to them, and then just about five weeks ago began to reach out to those in the Alzheimer's unit. You have to kind of bring things down--well, you don't actually bring them all the way down to their level. You try to pull them up a little bit, but it's much more of a generic service. I told Pastor I wanted to begin to--since the others weren't going to understand anyway, they couldn't get offended, so we began to try to minister more to the ones who were cognizant and receptive. We began to see some of the staff who, if they didn't think you were looking, would join in or they were really listening intently as we began to share some Scripture. We just began a Bible study with some of the ladies that had a desire to serve the Lord and to grow in their relationship with Him, and now we're having a Thursday afternoon Bible study as well. It's just a very fruitful time, and they've asked me to take another thing at the retirement home, where a couple of times a year I'll do a memorial service for those who have died. It's another way to reach out to the families. Just a couple of weeks ago some of the families saw me, and they said, "Reverend Carlson, my mother and father look so forward to the services that you provide. They couldn't go to church otherwise, and they're just very grateful." Their mother remembers that, but their father doesn't. It's really been a privilege, and it's become a real joy for me now, and I'm really thankful for that.

Pastor Scott: Praise God! Amen. That's some good stuff. Go ahead.

Pastor Rob Hendrickson: I'll share a little bit, first of all, just regarding the outreach that we've been involved in over the last year, and one of them has been in a retirement home down in Richmond. It's kind of interesting. A couple of years ago, one of the ladies in our church who doesn't like to get up in front of people and speak at all said, "I just really feel like the Lord has put it on my heart to go into a retirement home." I thought, "Well, it must be God, because this wouldn't be something that she would be doing on her own." So the door was opened for us to be able to go in, and for about eighteen months now, a retirement home just about a block down from my home, where the church is at, we've been going in every Monday. There's the invalid section, which is where Steve would normally be, and then there's the other section, the assisted living side. We have to, at least one time, say something for Steve here. He's got that look like: "I'm going to get you!"

Pastor Carlson: If anybody needs a new conscience that's never been used, we have one available.

Pastor Hendrickson: Anyway, we've been going in every Monday, and now there are sixty people that are coming out every Monday. Father has really moved mightily there. You always think: what an opportunity to get to some of these people that accept the Lord and immediately check out of here. And the amazing thing is, at least once a month all of the children go in. It's neat to be able to realize, here are some of these children who are leading these folks--some of the folks are seventy, eighty, or ninety years of age--and leading them into a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and to be able to know that they've been able to snatch them out of the fire, praise God. Here over the last couple of months, two of the oldest girls, Ashley and Elyse (Ashley is fifteen now and Elyse is sixteen) have been able to get up and actually bring the Word of God to these people. That's been a blessing to see. Again, here are these young people bringing the words of life to folks who have lived long lives and yet never knew what it was to really live life, and here are these young people able to bring it to them. So that's been exciting to see. It's really impacted our fellowship; it's impacted our people, and we're just looking for more opportunities for these kids to be able to get involved in that.

The other thing we've been doing--and some of you helped us even a couple of years ago down in the Bonaire Juvenile Facility. We still go in there twice a month, going in there and really just scattering seed. We're still not seeing a lot of fruit coming out of it, but here again, you're just going in and throwing seed. There's such a turnover. They're shipping these kids--some of them may end up actually coming up here, and there's probably a good possibility that some of you all are ministering to the same ones that we're ministering to down there. So for some of these things, it's just as unto the Lord. You just trust that seed is going to go in there, and it's going to effect itself in the lives of these people.

Then the Haynesville outreach--I think we're at nine years now, I believe we've been going into Haynesville--and really seeing some good fruit. Of course, Brother Bill Snow and John Azat are a couple of those, and Father is just continuing to work. Every week I go, and I'm simply amazed that we're still there, with the message that we're bringing. It's a very religious prison population, and it's always humorous when you have a sign-in sheet for all the volunteers, and they have Native Americans and the person who signs is Sitting Bull or Flying Eagle or something like that. Yeah, Wicca, and there's a strong Muslim influence there.

Not too long ago we challenged our people, "Go look for people that are radical about something. Find somebody who's radical, because there are enough of the apathetic people out there." Brother Frank Holmes did just that. He found one of those radical Muslims in the place and went and shared the love of Jesus, and the guy just went off on Frank. He just started yelling at him and screaming, and every vile thing you could imagine was coming out of this guy's mouth. I was telling Pastor, the way you could picture Frank would be an unsaved Mike Tyson. I mean, that's the way Frank Holmes is in the natural, and he said it was just amazing to him because the whole time he was very relaxed. This guy was nose to nose with him, and he was just able to share the love of Jesus. No question, Frank could have taken the guy out, but instead chose to allow the Holy Spirit to do it, praise God. Consequently, word got throughout the prison population--and it's a prison of about a thousand people--and everybody heard about what happened in the dorm there. So I just encouraged the men to just really start praying for this guy, to kill him with kindness--just continue to look for opportunities and to see Father be able to really use these guys to be a light in this place. There's a lot of religion, and that's what we're really looking to, just to see God effect a work in these guys. We've got a church in there, and God is being able to bring true growth through persecution in the lives of these guys, so that's been exciting to see.

On the home front, in the fellowship, I think over the last year one thing that's really happened within our community is that through the various trials within the community it's really made each one of us more dependent upon everybody else. I mean, it's really forced people into a greater dependence because of the trials and the situations. Nobody likes to be dependent on anybody, and this is exactly what Father has been doing in our midst, and it's been really great. The effect that it's had upon our people is just a greater death and people having to really die to themselves to go and really--people can't make it without each other. So it's been good to see that.

Then, as I shared, we continue to move in our home. If any of you all have a building down in Richmond that's vacant and it's open, let us know; we'll be happy to go over there. But just to give you an idea, our Discipleship Training starts at 7:30 in the morning. What used to be our formal living room is now the sanctuary, and what used to be our formal dining room is now one of the Discipleship Training rooms. The kitchen is the other Discipleship Training room, and the family room is another Discipleship Training room, and the sunroom is another Discipleship Training room. Denise wouldn't let me use the bedrooms, so we've kept that separate at this point. But it's all for Father, and it's been great to see. The folks are coming in, and it's like it doesn't matter anymore. It's home--of course, one thing about it, if I decide, "You know, I think we'll just take a vacation--just stay home for the weekend," that doesn't work. If you decide you're going to stay home from church, that doesn't work, because everybody comes to your house anyway. If you get sick, well, you can stay home from church, but everybody's still coming to your house.

God has been good, and we just rejoice in the privilege to be able to serve and the privilege to be able to give. I think with the trials that the people have experienced this year, it's been a blessing just to see how they've weathered the storms, and you just rejoice in what God is doing in their lives and what God has done in the community. Like I said, I think the one main thing is that it's brought about a greater dependence upon each other, and that's been good.

Pastor Scott: Amen. A lot of good things that are happening. I had a surprise today; some of you may have heard him. David Grant came by, and so if you were within twenty or thirty miles, you probably got a little bit of an earshot of him anyway. I hadn't seen David for a while, and he was on his way to London and dropped in. I asked him, I said, "How many miles have you flown preaching the gospel?" He said f, "Five million." He said he preached--how many times has he's preached?

Pastor Carlson: He said eighteen thousand messages--

Pastor Scott: But six thousand sermons.

Pastor Carlson: I think it was six sermons, three thousand times each.

Pastor Scott: Right. That's what it was. Yeah, that's what it was. Three sermons, six thousand times each, but he said he's preached about eighteen thousand sermons, traveled five million miles--been serving God. You know, it's exciting. Part of his testimony, some of you may even remember that he had pledged that he would live single until, what was it?

Other Pastors: Thirty years.

Pastor Scott: Thirty years old, and give his life to the Lord. So he preached full time from when he was seventeen until he was thirty. He said he gave every dollar he made to missions in that period of time. Just a great, great ministry and a good friend, and he's still just so thankful to you all. You know, we haven't put a dime in his ministry for ten years, I don't think, and he just loves everybody here. He's so thankful for everything that was done and is still just rejoicing in the fruit that's come out of your faithfulness of what's been sown into that ministry over there.

He was just sharing with us today again, things that are bearing fruit from what you've done and the offerings that were given over those years. So that was exciting. A lot of interesting things that are going on in his world--in Nepal, in Bangladesh and Pakistan and Afghanistan and India, is where he' is ministering. So just a lot of neat things that are happening in the Body of Christ today. It's an exciting time to be serving and to see what God is doing. You see how big the world is, and how big the ministry is. Then, in all of our lives, sometimes we can think that what we're doing is so insignificant, but the body is made up of every little cell. It's just a blessing to see the method that God has chosen through the body and all the members in particular, whether it's a David Grant, and dear Lord, this guy--what an exciting choice God made with him, and the faithfulness. He may only have three messages--he has more than that; he's probably got five--but what a love for souls and what a heart for the Kingdom of God and a pouring out of his life.

Those are the things that are exciting--to be joined. We've been talking about the body ministry; we're joined with ministry like that. This man is part of us; in the Spirit we're one, and some of those dollars that you put in over the years--we put well over $100,000 into that ministry--and he was talking today about the dividends. Some of the things he said that was used for was the training of the pastors, and now some of these pastors are actually going forth as missionaries into some of these other countries. So what we gave into India is now going to Bangladesh or wherever else it might be.

The persecution that's coming in India--he talked about Brother Mohan, where we ministered in Madras. Some of you remember Brother Mohan. He said his church is running, what did he say now, twenty-five thousand or something? That's something to rejoice in, but to realize the world we're living in--it's not just America--and it's going to come to America. They've passed a law now that to witness to somebody or to make a convert, you can go to jail. Just for witnessing, just sharing the gospel. It's on the books, man. If you're found talking to somebody about Jesus, you can go to jail. Three years, wasn't it? Just for witnessing. Exciting time we're living in. Amen? Just think, some of us will be able to go to prison for preaching the gospel before too long. You know, this is the real thing, and playtime is over in the world, as we're seeing it wind down in these last days, as the spirit of antichrist is on the rise. So be prayerful and be thankful for where God has placed us into the body, praise God.

Do you guys have any--we were talking about the Body of Christ, and we were sharing some of the aspects out of Roman 12 and 1 Corinthians 12 on the body and how we do complement one another. We were talking about the universal body worldwide, and then also about our own local assemblies--not only local as each of our individual locales, but then local as we, as ministries, are woven together. Maybe you could just share with the people a little bit on something that stood out to you in the discussion that would be applicable to where their lives are and how it relates to the Body of Christ.

Pastor Chuck LaRock: Just one quick thing quick, to kind of tie in that discussion with the tail end of what you were talking about David there. You mentioned it, but it also stood out to me how David said he'd preached eighteen thousand sermons. I think he actually said twenty-five thousand sermons, and his math wasn't quite correct, because then he said he'd preached six sermons three thousand times.

Pastor Scott: Yeah, I think it was twenty-five thousand.

Pastor Chuck LaRock: But to look at that guy and look at how much he's done and to be humble enough to say, "You know, I've only got six messages," and that's probably about right, because we've heard him preach before. When he preaches, he preaches a very simple message--very simple, basic Bible message. And he's heard teachers like you before, Pastor, expound the Word of God, and he's been exposed to C. M. Ward and great teachers over the years, but to not despise the gift that he has and say, "I'm not C. M. Ward. I don't teach like Star Scott. I've only got these six simple messages, but that's what God has put on my heart, and He can still use me." And to not despise that, but to just recognize, to think soberly, as God has given to him the measure of faith to do what he's been called to do. It's like you've been emphasizing--, not just to walk in that gift but to be humble enough to recognize what his place is and to not feel like he has to be C. M. Ward or he has to be Paul Cho or anyone that we might look at and say, "This is a great gift," but to be able to recognize his gift, recognize what God has done in his life, and do it faithfully and recognize the other gifts and where you fit with them. I just thought that was a great testimony of what we were talking about, about the body. "I've only got six messages, and I've preached them three thousand times each.

Pastor Scott: Yeah, and to see how God has so mightily used him. I mean, he's now the head over all of Asia in the Assemblies of God, and this is a phenomenal responsibility that he has.

Pastor Hendrickson: Europe, too.

Pastor Scott: Is he overseeing--is it Euro-Asia? A third of the world, and the Assemblies of God is the biggest outreach that there is. God is blessing in that; there's some great growth. I think he said now five thousand churches, was it, in India, that they've got going now?

Pastor Carlson: Didn't he say a thousand last year?

Pastor Scott: I think that's what he said. The rate of growth has been phenomenal. And you know, one of the things that stood out to me,, as it pertained to the body, that was such a blessing, and to see how we all fit in, the question was asked of him, "How did you get called into the ministry? How did you know you were called?" And you know, David is always just--he'd drive you nuts, and I've only really, in all the time I've spent with him--just to see him calm down and talk like a normal human; it's few and far between. And Wwhen he began to share this, it touched his heart. You could see him--he just sobered, and he hearkened back to his childhood, and this is where I want to relate it to the Body of Christ and how our ministries vary and our responsibilities.

He said, "You know, my dad--we lived in a two-bedroom home, and my dad would give every dime he made to missions. He just loved God and loved souls, and he'd just give everything we had. We didn't have anything; just enough to get by and eat on, and everything else went to the ministry, to missions." He said every missionary that was anywhere near got invited to stay at his house, and he said, of course, when the preachers, (the missionaries), came, they had to sleep on a pallet in the living room, on the floor. He said, "All I can remember--my earliest childhood memories are lying on that pallet on the living room weeping, just saying, "God, let me be a missionary. Let me go share this message with the world." He said, "I don't know when I was called. In fact, as I got older, I actually went to my dad and said, 'Dad, I don't know if I'm called or not. I've had no road to Damascus thing.'" And his dad said, "Son, what do you think this passion is that's been burning in you since you've been two years old? Do you think the devil gave you that?" And his commitment, as we shared with you, made as a young man at seventeen--he said, "God, I pledge to You that I'll not marry before I'm thirty years old. I'm committing this part of my life to You, and I'm going to give everything that I make into the Kingdom." From seventeen to thirty that's what he did. Yeah, he gave $300. He was living by faith, and you've got to remember that churches were little back then--tiny little churches. Offerings were few and far between. And he said he averaged $300 a week for thirteen years that he gave to India, where his heart was, burning for the Indian people.

I just share that to share with some of you young people who have ambitions of making your first million by the time you're thirty. Maybe your treasures are needing some modification and what your vision is--those of you who just have to get married in the next two weeks, or whatever it is, or you've missed God and you're going to be an old maid. Let God order your course, and let God place you in the body as it pleases Him.

It was that willingness to be used as God placed him that I thought was an exciting part of the testimony that he was sharing. Who would have thought--what was his dad's real ministry? Those little tiny churches that he pastoredpastured, or inviting missionaries into his home that would set this man's heart on fire, who is now overseeing millions in the Kingdom of God? We don't always know what our ministry is accomplishing if we're faithful where God has called us and put us. His dad probably never preached to a crowd bigger than seventy people, but he raised up a boy who has ministered to millions, and that's how the Body of Christ works. I think that's the real genius of this ministry called the Body of Christ that we've been talking about. Those things are exciting, and just to see it in David's life and just to meditate on that a little bit, something beyond ourselves, was a blessing, just to see how God is moving.

Pastor Carlson: And the offering he said that they raised last night for missions. Remember, they were down in Florida?

Pastor Scott: Oh, yeah, they were down at the District Council, I think he said.

Pastor Carlson: $500,000 dollars he raised.

Pastor Scott: Yeah, where was it for?

Pastor Carlson: Teen Challenge.

Pastor Scott: Teen Challenge. Yeah, he said they raised a half a million dollars for Teen Challenge last night down at the Florida District Council and was excited about that. David could raise some money, man. That dude, he's one of the biggest money raising guys I've ever seen in my life, man. That guy could take your last dime.

Pastor Carlson: And make you laugh and cry at the same time.

Pastor Scott: Yeah, and it's pretty amazing. That's a gift that God's given him. That dude has raised money for missions; there's no telling how much money he's raised, and it passes through. That's exciting to watch. Since we're talking about Dave and the blessing he is, what you were talking about, Chuck--his ability to be the man in charge but to step back and bring gifts in, of teaching and demonstration and power or whatever it is that he's sensing at that time is needed in whatever the goal might be, which in and of itself requires that humility. It's a wisdom of how to administrate the gifts, and it makes it very functional. We don't have to do it all ourselves; it's the cooperation.

Did anything else stand out to you guys along the lines of the ministry? I was trying to think--some of you may remember the last time he was here, he was talking about the ministry to the prostitutes.

Pastor Rob Hendrickson: Operation Rescue.

Pastor Scott: Yeah, Operation Rescue. In fact, Beth is overseeing that now. Wasn't it interesting, when they went in there, he said they just gave them kids? That really stuck out to you. ? They said, "Well, you can't have these, but here, we'll give you thirty-seven kids to start your orphanage." People just said, "We don't want them here," and they gave them thirty-seven kids. So the orphanage started, and they've been training these kids up. In the process, he said they're averaging now, with those ex-prostitutes, over three hundred a service. Is that what he said they average in the church now in that area? What was it?

Pastor Jim LaRock: I think it's two hundred.

Pastor Scott: Two hundred?

Pastor Jim LaRock: YesYeah.

Pastor Forbe Carlson: They've seen a thousand come out of prostitution.

Pastor Scott: A thousand that have been delivered from prostitution and a couple of hundred that are meeting actively right on the streets where they were serving in full-time prostitution--placed into prostitution by whoever had bought them; they were indentured servants.

Pastor Carlson: Parents sold them.

Pastor Scott: Parents sold them to be prostitutes, and right there on the streets where they were, now a couple hundred of them meeting every Lord's Day, man, worshipping the Lord and saved. That's just part of the ministry that's going on there. There's some exciting stuff. I was trying to think if there were other things. He said probably the greatest persecution is going on in Pakistan right now; even more than Bangladesh and Nepal, he said. So the Body of Christ is big, it's alive and well, and yet at the same time many of our brothers and sisters around the world are paying a real price for naming the name of Jesus. We need to be thankful, number one, that we're being spared from that, and then we also need to fortify our hearts while we have this opportunity--because that day is coming--and let the Lord minister to us.

Let's look over at those passages real quickly; we have a couple of minutes left. We were going over some of the passages of Scripture, and we were looking to the Lord's wisdom in applying these principles we've been talking about--1 Corinthians 12, verses 22 down through 27--and shared a few things that we felt were very practical in how we can see the Body of Christ functioning. I'll just let some of you share. We brought out some points that we believe the Lord has spoken to us that were fresh for us, and maybe some of you can share what stood out to you all. Whoever wants to share--or I'll teach it again.

Pastor Jeff Heglund: I can start it. Maybe you could speak to just exactly how all this went, but I really enjoyed when you were talking about the definition of the comely parts, and how that comeliness was speaking of--

Pastor Scott: Is that the part that interrupted your solitaire game that you were playing?

Pastor Heglund: It didn't interrupt--kept right on going--but the comely parts being that we're complete and without the voids, and how you were talking about all being filled in as the body was being tempered. You talked about how that was going on and how our comely parts have no need and the uncomely parts having more abundant comeliness and getting more honor. Somebody had asked the question about that being a little confusing. Are we to give more honor to the parts that are not complete, and how does that work and how are the needs to be met by the body? Maybe you could just speak to that again, because I know I can't bring it all back totally.

Pastor Scott: Okay. Richard, you remember well because you asked the question, and we were sharing it.

Pastor Miller: It really opened up that passage for me, and I'm eager to hear you teach on it, as I hope you will, because it still needs to be developed in my heart. But you were talking about the comely parts being those that God has placed in positions of ministry or those that you would consider to be more mature, those that are discipling and admonishing and helping and encouraging others in their walk. We see that word "honor," and we immediately think of someone in the spotlight. But really, as you were sharing, it became more and more apparent that's really not what that word "honor" is speaking about. It's speaking about the care that's being given to what we would consider the uncomely parts (the uncomely being those that are weaker, those that are not as mature as the comely) and how those that are the mature (the comely) give more abundant honor to those that are not comely (to those that are needing more help, to those that need more preparation).

The principles that Paul is speaking here, you related back to Ephesians, how the fivefold ministry gifts equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. So this honor that's being bestowed upon the uncomely parts doesn't mean that we give them a banquet and put their names in lights and go out of our way to seek to praise them for any or every little good thing they do. It's not recognition, really, at all. What it's speaking about is that training aspect, the preparation. We brought up the fact--Pastor Jim, you talked about it some--how there are people in the fellowship that just require more time than other people, and they seem to get more attention. We talked about the irony of how sometimes even in a family it can appear at times--hopefully this isn't the case--but it can appear at times that the good child is being neglected and the bad child is getting all the attention because they're the ones that are always needing to be corrected and admonished and so forth.

So, not to say that the uncomely parts are the bad kids--not at all--but just, again, drawing off of that principle that this is the preparation. When you begin to see that, it really opens up that passage, because that's what he's talking about down in verse 25, "That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another." In the context here of verses 14, 15, 16 and then down into verse 25, you can see in context that really is what Paul is talking about: the training and the preparation of the body to minister to itself so that each member has the same care one for another. So the comely parts (or the more mature or those that appear to be in the spotlight, so to speak; those that are sitting up on stage right now) have the job of preparing and equipping the saints to care for one another so that every cell and joint and member is contributing what they're supposed to be so that there is no schism in the body, and the blood flow and the life flow is flowing as it should be, which really ties into what you were saying the other night. Strife doesn't have to be, is not necessarily, open contention. We think of strife as being an argument or a heated disagreement, and strife can be just someone neglecting what God has called them to do. Suddenly now there's a break in the life flow simply by neglect. They're not at odds with anybody, but just because they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing there's life flow that is missing.

Pastor Scott: They're actually at odds with God. This is an important part for us to see as we relate, because unless we understand that, then we have the different stages of growth. You have the mature, the adolescent type growth, children or whatever, and many times the ones that get messed up in a lot of this are you adolescents. "Why am I not getting the attention I deserve?" "Why am I not getting the responsibility I deserve? I'm grown up; I should be able to do this." "Look what I did! How come I don't get a reward for it?." "Why are you spending all your time with the baby?" All of these kind of things. So Paul, of course--remember who he's writing to, the Corinthians here--and everybody is wanting attention, everybody is wanting to prophesy, and everybody is hearing from God--""I've got these gifts"--and all of this. In the midst of all of this, Paul is saying, "What we really need are some mature believers who will understand the responsibility of their gifts. What you need to see is, I am one of those, and I'm telling you how to get your act together here. I want some order, and I want you to begin to stop trying to draw attention to yourself and begin to serve others. I want you to begin to get the more important things accomplished here in the Body of Christ."

That's the context, and then as he goes down, he says, "Now we are all members and we are all gifted, but you need to understand something: He set in the church, first apostles..." So the honor, then, as you were asking the question in the meeting, the honor--well, what do we do; if the honor goes to the uncomely, how do we relate to the apostle and the prophet and the pastor and the teacher? What glory do they get? The glory they get is the tedious work of bringing maturity to the rest of the Body of Christ to do the work of the ministry that Ephesians speaks towards.

God speaks very highly of us. Richard talked about those of us that are here on the stage as being the comely parts, and that's probably a true, great definition because that word "comely" means elegant and graceful and well-formed. Aren't we well-formed? So when you're looking at this, what he's talking about is completion or maturity. The work is being completed here, and these are the comely parts, and because of that, the responsibility has been given to them to minister and bring honor to the uncomely--the uncomely just meaning without shape, not yet complete. The Greek word for the honor here can either be rendered glory or it can be rendered the value of. I think that probably contextually would be our best application. The more abundant honor is realizing the value of these people doing their work, and so we've got to give the attention to them because the strength is in the ox, and the body does the work of the ministry. So we give our time, we give our effort, into preparing each member to fully function so that the overall can be edified, and that's what Paul is trying to get us to see here. Then in the midst of all of that, he turns it back around and he says, "Don't forget, God has set in the church, first apostles, secondarily..."--and he sets back now, not the functional, but the authoritative order. Now we're ready to operate by love in chapter 13. That's the practical part of this.

So each one of our lives, then, how does this affect us? Well, when you come up and say, "Pastor, I really believe God is leading me to head up this ministry"--or to teach this class or to sing a special or whatever--the response to that, then, according to what Paul is saying here, is, "Well, in actuality what God is telling you to do is to clean the toilet, because that's what we need done right now." I'm bestowing upon you honor; I'm directing you. The fact that I'm recognizing you as part of the Body of Christ is the honor that's being given to you, and your recognition of me perfecting the saints to do the work of the ministry is what's keeping this schism from occurring so that the body can function. You're not doing your own thing, you're not calling yourself into a ministry, you're not confirming your own worth, and that's part of that humility that we've been talking about. Any other comments? Yeah.

Pastor Carlson: I like the analogy that you drew--and drew a little more yesterday than you have tonight--of the uncomely being likened to the baby in a family. As I was giving some time just meditating on that, the aspect of that baby just being immature--very much a person, very much a part of the family, but yet not able to function to the same degree--but still cared for and loved. As you continue looking at the oversight of a young child, the mature parent is not the one that just goes and drops everything else in the household to go for every whim of the baby. If the baby has to be fed in the middle of the night, you get them up and you feed them because that's life, as opposed to just because they want attention and this is a good time to get it. Then the aspect of bringing them to maturity, the training is to bring them to the understanding of where they fit within the scheme of the body. They are a member of the body, they are not the focal point of the body. To do the job is maturity, as the leader, as the overseer.

I thought the other aspect is that many times within the Body of Christ or even within our families, the one that begins to express, "Hey, I'm not getting love over here; you're forgetting about me"--that just speaks of immaturity, because they are declaring themselves uncomely, if you please. They're declaring themselves immature, because "I feel there needs to be more attention, there needs to be more love, there needs to be more appreciation, respect for me." This in itself just speaks of uncomeliness or immaturity and the inability to see where the true function of yourself is within that body. So I really like the aspect of drawing out that parallel that you did.

Pastor Scott: The end of it is in that one statement, that we would "have the same care one for another." As the body is functioning through the official office of deacon, we talked about that, but we said we all have the responsibility of deacon even though we don't have the title of deacon, because the object that he's speaking toward here (the reason the office of deacon came) is so that no one would be overlooked in the administration of the distribution and there wouldn't be preferential treatment (there was nobody being overlooked), and that's the body ministry. So each one of us has the responsibility, even though we don't have the office, of seeing that every need in our midst is being met at all times--that there's no lack, that everyone is being represented, that we're having the same care one for another. That's that Romans 12 that we talked about, the ministries aspect and wait on your ministering. That's the practical part of it.

Pastor Miller: There was another part that you brought out, I think it was today, that I thought would be very good for the people to think on. You made the statement that many times people in the congregation--and you weren't speaking necessarily of our congregation, and you surely were not being critical in any way--but you were saying that many times people in the congregation feel as though they're serving the pastor, but it's really us serving them and equipping them. I was thinking, if Pastor Gardner called some people up and said, "Hey, can you come up and do this? We need this done at the church?" and in their minds they're thinking, "Well, we've got to go do this for Pastor Gardner because one of the pastors called us." No, really, Pastor Gardner was serving them by giving them an opportunity to minister as unto the Lord, by giving them an opportunity to minister unto God, and then when they show up to do the job and he's giving them instructions on how to do it and explaining what to do, now he's equipping them to get the job done. I just like what you said there, because it's not, "We've got to go up because one of the pastors needs help again." It's a thing where they are actually being served now by being put into a job or a project where they get to serve the Lord.

Pastor Scott: Yes, and there again, why are we doing that? Why did the pastor call you? For the good of the flock. You're not up here rocking  Steve's hammock. Well, you might be, but-- 

Pastor Carlson: He already has a wife.

Pastor Scott: There are times when we have needs in our own personal lives, and people can minister to that, but most of the time those needs are taken care of among ourselves. It's a serving of the body; this is an overseeing--they're calling you to minister to the body, and it's being administrated from this level of oversight because that's the placement. We mentioned the transparency: you're serving through authority, not to it.

Any other comments onf some of the points that we brought out, something that may be practically applied in some of the families? We're just about out of time, but if there's anything else that stood out. This is such an important part of ministry and what it is that we're trying to accomplish.

I was teasing Jeff about his new little--what's that thing called? A Palm Pal, Buddy, Friend, whatever.

Pastor Carlson: Palm Pilot.

Pastor Scott: Pilot. All of those things that are given to us for efficiency and order. I don't even know that he was playing--I was just teasing him--but I think somebody else brought up-- Who was it that was sitting over there fooling around with that thing? Somebody had solitaire up on that thing, I think. I don't know who it was. Anyway, the point that I was making is, here's an instrument made for efficiency, but in that, they put a game.

Pastor Chuck LaRock: That's what you do with all the time you save.

Pastor Scott: You do that with all the time you're saving?

Pastor Chuck LaRock: You save all that time, and so you can play games.

Pastor Scott: Right. As we were talking, I was thinking about how that relates to function in the Body of Christ. That's kind of the mentality of, "We're going to be very efficient here, so that we can consume it upon ourselves over here." The body ministry never takes that thought process. It's always one of serving, it's always one of caring, it's always esteeming others--it's always that type of a thing. I think the spirit behind a lot of this natural technology is that very thing. We have to just go back to the old-fashioned way of doing things and realizing it's just plain slow, hard work--one day at a time, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little. You don't build the body overnight. You don't build it with computer programs and many of these things. This world that we're living in--we talked about it today as it related to education--the world has set priorities, standards, values, and so many of us dance to the tune that they're playing. We need to step back and stop letting that influence us in what we esteem valuable in the Kingdom of God and in the Body of Christ, and let God place us as it pleases Him.

Pastor Heglund: One of the other things that you said, it jogged my mind when you were talking about the old paths--you were just sharing again, and you share pretty often, about how special what we have here is, and not to take that for granted. You were talking about building the body, and that that can be a very exciting process. It's a lot of hard work, and there's a goal out in front of you whether it's reaching our neighborhood, a witnessing goal, or bringing a body up to a place of maturity like this one is--but you talked about the difficulty of management. We have to be very careful here in realizing that a lot of times management is a lot more difficult than building something, because there's that maintenance. I'm using management, but a similar idea. Just the fact that maintenance isn't as glamorous;, it just involves good old-fashioned hard work. You don't have the big stories to tell--""Well, we just got all these people saved and were just added." No, we're just keeping the ones and growing--the ones we've got. Not that people aren't being added here, but that fact--and I thought that was a good one in light of the body ministry and one that stood out to me and encouraged me to make sure that I'm continuing on and just how the Scripture puts it: that patient, continuance in well-doing. Not that glamorous--

Pastor Scott: That's a good point to bring up that we had discussed, because it is a lot more glamorous to have the big splash campaign, we're reaching out, whatever. Maintenance just isn't glamorous; it's just plain old day-after-day drudgery of keeping what you've got in shape. That is really the primary function of body ministry; it's discipling, it's maintaining, it's caring for every member to be functional for the glory of God. It is exciting when new babies are added and all of that, but the house has to run and stay in order, and that's one of the main functions of the Body of Christ. Anybody else want to share anything? If not, we'll get ready to shut down, but along these lines or anything else?

Pastor Hendrickson: Can I ask a quick question?

Pastor Scott: Yesah.

Pastor Hendrickson: How many of you all have been here for five years? Raise your hand. Okay. How many of you have been here for ten years? Fifteen years? Twenty years? Look at that. Twenty-five years? You're talking about maintenance, and there's the fruit of it. Actually, I was talking with Ricky Pinti the other day, and it was good. I saw him in the bathroom and was just rejoicing at what Father was doing in his life. Whenever we get to come back for times like these, I'm always blessed to see people that are here. We were kind of reminiscing and talking about his parents, the Pintis, who have been here for such a long period of time, and that's the fruit of the ministry. It's what you even shared with David today regarding the pastoral staff, those who have been with you for twenty years. All of that goes back to that same thing; it's all maintenance. It may not be glamorous, but when you have longevity of people who continue faithfully--. We all know how easy it's been for people just to bail out and leave and go someplace else. Many of you have had opportunities many times to do that and instead have just continued to persevere and endure and recognize your place within the community of believers. The privilege and the joy of just being able to serve in a place that you know is producing something, and that's a blessing.

Pastor Scott: Amen. One area that sounds good--since you brought that up I'll just speak toward this. You see the people that have been here and remained, but I've always thought it was interesting how some people say, "Well, I'm here because God sent me here, and when He tells me to leave I'll leave." Then you really haven't learned anything in the twenty-five years you've been here, because God did send you here, but what you should have learned is: He's not going to tell you to leave without us affirming it in oversight. That's part of this whole recognition of the Head, body, members, gifts, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, those that rule over us, those that stand before us, comely, uncomely, all of that which works. It sounds real good, but it doesn't work that way. You recognize God sent you me here and He ordered your my steps here, and however He did it--some of us, like myself, through more supernatural, spectacular ways than others who just kind of--""Somebody witnessed to me and I got here, and now I'm here. I've been here forever and haven't been able to find a good opportunity to leave yet" and whatever. But the understanding now as we mature--the Head came down here and walked a foot up to this place in time and space--it didn't happen that way. God used members in the body to touch you one way or another, and we don't just relate to the Head. That's what we're trying to get across right now, because to do that is anarchy. It's thinking of ourselves more highly thant we ought to think, and it's the thing that brings that schism and that strife that we were talking about. So we need to always be aware of the order and the recognition. Richard, this goes along with one of the questions you asked--the recognition of the gifts and when that's done--you asked how we practically relate the honor to those functions as we do to the practical, daily honor that goes to the members of the Body of Christ--and that's how it's done. It's done when there's recognition of the placement through obedience, submission, all of those different aspects.

Let's go ahead and pray. Father, we do thank You for Your presence in our lives and the opportunity to serve You. We never take for granted what You've given us, but sometimes we are less fervent in our giving of thanks. Lord, we just want to say thank You for the blessings that You've bestowed upon us. So thankful for the ministry that You've placed in our lives: the pastors, the deacons, the husband. Thank You for the helpmeet, the wife that You've given me. Thank You, Lord, for godly kids. We didn't make them godly, You did. You gave them to us; they're Yours, and we're so thankful for godly children that have chosen to be obedient. We thank You for the privilege of sowing into their lives. We thank You for godly parents. We thank You, Lord, that You chose to put us in homes where Dad and Mom would not compromise with the world, where they wouldn't do anything but hold before us the standards of these unsearchable riches. We're so thankful for that, Father, that You've given us godly parents. Whatever realm you are, just a thanksgiving for the community, the Body of Christ, the opportunity to serve. Father, for that we just say, "Thank You, in Jesus' name." Amen. Amen. Praise God.

Before you go, turn to somebody next to you and say, "We're members, one of another." Amen.

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