Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Pastoral Panel Discussion

PASTOR SCOTT: While the other guys are coming up, we're going to take a few minutes--and I heard some good reports from the home fellowship groups last night. We had a good time in men's breakfast and we want to continue along that line, and really need you to give a little bit of thought to the teaching, and also to the practical aspect of the subject matter we've been on. If there are any questions, we want you to ask. If it's something that you're kind of embarrassed about, then just ask in this way: just say, "I have this friend..." and then nobody will know it's you.

As we're looking at really hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit--I was telling the guys in the back--my main desire for this teaching is so that, as we're coming into these last days, I believe that we're going to see the spectacular move of God to sustain His church. I think we're going to see a need to distinguish, in signs and wonders, between lying and the power of God. If that's the case, we're going to need to not confuse these two kingdoms and the voices that speak toward each of them. We want to be able to try to practically recognize that voice of God. The importance of this, of course, is, practically, to be able to walk in relationship with Father in a relationship of peace and joy. I think many of us are bound by the Law, and we're afraid. We think we have to live--and I've used this illustration so many times, but you're in the supermarket, and, "O dear Lord, is it Del Monte or Safeway brand? God tell me; O speak, Lord, which brand." God doesn't care what brand of green beans you're going to eat. Why are our lives being tormented like that? What kind of Father do you think you have, that if you have Del Monte He's going to squash you like a bug because you should have bought Safeway brand? What's that all about?! God is not into Safeway or Del Monte or anything else; He's into righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Not knowing Father, we get tormented by these decisions. "I'm afraid I'm going to miss God." How are you going to miss God when the steps of the good man are ordered by the Lord? He sets you right. How are you going to miss Him? Ultimately, you may make a mistake; you may get a lump on your head by a wrong decision, but God will set you straight, amen? Our steps are ordered. We want to just understand the goodness of Father and His involvement in your life, and that your steps are ordered, and that all things are going to work together for good if you love God, and not have to hear these voices to be comfortable; to be able to be at peace in the unknown. "What's God doing in your life?" Don't have a clue; but He's working, praise God. "Whom are you supposed to marry?" Don't know. "How many years of school are you going to?" Don't know. We've already got our kindergartners, planned their graduate school, and that they're going to get their doctorate from here, and their second doctorate from here, and one in engineering, and one in medicine. Who knows? Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof. Wanting to come to walking in the peace of God, enjoy the kingdom that's righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Hearing that voice, the truth of God, and majoring on the majors of our personal righteousness, and our fulfilling of our roles, and learning what is important practically, and breaking down the confidence of that voice. "God spoke to me." Really? Some of us think that's the ultimate voice: what I feel. God has given us a lot to hold that up against, like His Word. "I have heard from God. God said it is not time to go to bed." Amen? "The Lord spoke! I know God has spoken to me that I'm to stay up another hour." Now whatever that voice is--and this is an illustration that we can all get our understand wrapped around, and we'll look at it and go, "That's ridiculous!" But just start applying it to some other things--now is there another voice that has spoken that's probably more sure than what the child is experiencing at that time, that they are convinced that God has told them to stay up another hour? What is that other voice of God? What do you think we'd find? What would we hold up against that child saying--mom and dad say, "Time for bed." Child says, "I've heard from God?" Okay. "Children obey your parents in the Lord." In asking them to go to bed are you violating any doctrinal area of their lives? No. So what should the child do even if he feels that's God, convinced that's God; what should he do? Go to bed, okay? "Yeah, but you know what? He may be hearing from God because there's going to be a fire in the house, and God is trying to preserve him." One of the springs in the mattress will break and he'll fly out the window and be safe, okay; but he needs to be in the bed because there's a higher law, "Children obey your parents in the Lord", than, "I feel God's speaking to me." We're trying to bring out some of those things so you can walk in a life that is free and peaceful, and not always have to understand everything that's happening. It drives you nuts, and you make too many mistakes because that voice, very frankly, is the voice, most of the time, of self will, of self justification, etc.; and then we try to blame God for it. Let's look at the Scriptures a little more and see what we can come up with. Richard, you were making a comment in the back and we were sharing some things, and maybe we can start off there because that's a practical point. It relates to this morning, and maybe that will be a good place for us to start tonight.

PASTOR MILLER: I was sharing in the back how helpful this morning was to me about the aspect of conscience being formed by our background, by the way we were raised, by our environment. As you said that, the more I thought about that, I thought, "You know, that's really true." So many people depend upon that being the voice of God, and you made it so clear this morning that that's really the voice of self. Then I was also thinking about Paul where in many places (and this is a paraphrase) he said, "I try to live always with a clear conscience." Poor paraphrase, but that's what he was saying. I was asking Pastor concerning that aspect and, again, it's the conscience that's been renewed by the Word of God. It's the renewed mind. It's the regenerated heart, and now that Law of God has been written upon my fleshly tablets of heart, and that Law is alive to me. When the Holy Spirit comes and speaks, as He speaks and leads us and guides us into all truth, that living Word in my heart will speak to me; Proverbs says that. The thing that brings a lot of peace, I think, is what you were saying several times this morning: everything that needs to be said has already been said. What the Holy Spirit does now is come in with that illumination, bring a supernatural application, so we know how to walk it out. When He's guiding us into truth, that's what He's doing. He's not telling us turn left, turn right, buy Del Monte. What He's saying is, "Okay, now you know the Word. You've read this; you've studied this; and here's an opportunity for you to live it; and here you go. Are you going to do what you know to do?" Because God's laws and God's ways, and God's mind, and His heart, are so far above us, we can't comprehend the mind of God. Only by His Spirit guiding us into truth can we comprehend the mind of God. The mind and heart of God is an utter mystery unless the Holy Spirit comes and guides us; that's why He's there. We would be hopeless and helpless to ever obey God without the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Not only does He bring the illumination as He guides us into truth, and He shows us practically how to walk this out, then He also empowers us to live it; it's a great ministry of the Holy Spirit.

PASTOR SCOTT: When we're praying, then, "Lord, what's your will," do you think that maybe what we're praying is, "Lord, make me understand, I want to understand, the unknown. I want to see the end of this thing. I want to know why." Many times we're praying, "Lord, what's your will," and we want to know more than we need to know to obey. It's basically just that we really want God to justify Himself to us, and I think that's something we need to guard against when we're praying to be led by the Lord. Much of our praying is, "Lord, I need more information to consider whether I'm going to obey you or not." That's a very dangerous place to be. That's why we started the whole teaching off that God is incomprehensible, but He can be known. In other words, we're not going to the mysteries. You're not going to know all the whys. I don't know why this person prospers and that person doesn't. I don't know why the tower fell on those men and didn't fall on those men. I don't know why. What I know is God is good, God is just, and He doesn't answer to me. These are some of the things that are important for us, to come into that faith. Now faith is not blind leap. There's nothing blind about knowing God. There's nothing blind about the general promises of God. There's nothing blind about the biblical proofs, and the experiential knowledge of God in your life. These are some things that we need to understand, what this walk in the spirit is all about.

PASTOR MILLER: There's something else you said this morning that really blessed me because it just confirmed something I have experienced in my own prayer life, where you were talking about these things being added unto us as we seek first His kingdom. Then all of the things that we sometimes pray so much time on, these will be added to us. As these things are being added to me, then I have to come to the conclusion: well, this is what God wants for me, whether it be a shack or a mansion, if I'm seeking Him first and pursuing Him with all of my heart. Then, whatever comes to me is His will for my life, so I am at peace. I am content knowing He is my treasure and He is my reward; He is what I've sought first. Then you made the statement, as we are dealing and working those areas out, "Just worship Him." I know for me there have been times in my prayer life where I've come in, and I've really felt that: just worship Him. Just sit at His feet and just declare how good He is, and how great He is, and then your mind starts to get anxious, and you think, "Well gee, I didn't pray about this, and I didn't ask Father about that, and I didn't pray about this situation over here, and all He wanted me to do is worship. I'm getting anxious about all these things because I want control again, and I want that understanding, and I want to walk by sight and not by faith, when all He wants is for us just to come and love Him and worship Him; He takes care of the rest. In the midst of that worship, He will speak to me. If there's a message He really has to get to me, He will get it to me.

PASTOR SCOTT: The key is when you're just worshiping the Lord and there is something legitimate that needs to be prayed about, like the ten days of crusades in Kwanjenga, Friday the 20th through February the 29th--I'm not making that up; write it down, okay? The crusade in Kwanjenga, the 20th through the 29th; they've asked us to pray for these crusades that will be going on. When there's something like that to pray about and I come in, and I'm praying, and seeking Father, and worshiping Him, and communing, and He's bringing edification to my soul, and He's bringing peace to me, and I leave, and I think, "I didn't pray for the meetings in Kwanjenga." Now I get all under condemnation and, "I missed God." Somebody else was praying. That's what we have to understand in the providence and the wisdom of God as He's ordering His body; we're not in charge, and we're not the ones who set these things in order, so I think that's very important. What do you think is going on when we have these two houses, and we're praying for God tell me which house. Two new houses: what would be going on there so many times when I'm asking Father, "Father, I need your will; I need to know what to do here. Should we buy this new house, Lord? Which of these two houses should it be, Lord; speak?"

Whenever you're that uncomfortable, you probably shouldn't buy either one of them at that juncture. You probably need to look at your heart and ask why I'm leaving the house I'm in. Am I content? Now I begin to look at character things and I begin to say, "Okay, if I'm not at peace here, and I don't know what to do" because, see, I know what to do: I'm going to buy the biggest, best house. If I'm not at peace, here, then maybe I'm not supposed to leave this one at all. Maybe I'm moving in covetousness. Maybe I'm not content. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself that I should overextend myself in buying this bigger one. "Lord! Lord, speak Lord," and we're trying to convince ourselves that this will be acceptable to God for me to break the already known. "If I rob from God, and my kids don't eat, Lord, we can have this new house. Speak Lord, thy will be done," and we're going to get in trouble. Other than that I'm at perfect peace: if I'm paying my tithe, if my kids are eating, (like I said this morning), if I'm serving in the body of Christ, if I'm walking in contentment, if I'm not bound by covetousness, if I'm content with everything I have, and I have the wherewithal to do this, good. You should be at peace to do it. Father doesn't have any problem with us moving into those areas when all of these other things are taken care of and in place; then you're at peace; then you're not sweating over which one. Get the one you like. That's what, I think, we're missing in this area, and it's because most of the time we're trying to con God; we're not sure of our relationship; we're not sure we're doing what needs to be done; "I've got so many other things messed up in my life, if I do this one more thing then God's really going to get me." That's what we need to move away from. Any other comments?

PASTOR MILLER: A lot of times we're not assured of His love for us. We really don't believe. "If I'm not involved in the process then God can't get it done, so I've got to know, I've got to get an answer, I've got to get this direction." We just really don't trust that His love encompasses and takes care of all.

PASTOR SCOTT: That's what we're trying to accomplish here, that contentment in our relationship with Father, and that all of these trivial things can be dealt with in peace if we're in right standing, if we're temperate in everything else. Chuck?

PASTOR LAROCK: You asked the question about the two houses. I think one answer to that could be that people would be praying "which one" so they could feel better about the decision they made. Sometimes you could pray about that with a wrong motive, just trying to look for some reason to justify it so then, at some later point, you can comfort yourself that you did what God told you to do. "God told me to do this." But really, when I think about those kinds of temporal things, I don't even think about, so much, asking God which one, because I believe He's already spoken; He's already spoken through all the principles in the Bible. What is going to be the fruit of this decision? Why do you want to make this decision? How will this decision affect your service in the kingdom, your family's service in the kingdom; what will the impact be? God is not going to tell you to do something contrary to His revealed will. He's not going to tell you to do something that's going to result in less fruit for the kingdom and less glory to Him. He's not going to do that because that's not what He's about, because He's about glorifying Himself; He is also about our own joy, and that is not unto our joy; He is our joy. He wants to give us Himself; so I, personally, don't think about that. When I make decisions, and think about decisions, I don't even think about, "God, should I get this or should I get that, I just mediate on the Bible principles. I also look at other people's examples because Jesus, of course, was an example to us as we look at His testimony. Father speaks through His Word and He speaks through the testimony of Jesus, which we have in the Word. I also look at the testimony of other godly saints, saints we can see in the Scriptures who are given as examples: David, Isaiah, Elijah, Peter, John, and we can see all the different examples. Then saints throughout history we can look at, and then saints here in our fellowship we can look at as godly examples, and see what decisions they've made; what is the fruit of that, then, just to answer that question about the houses.

PASTOR SCOTT: It's, again, so obvious; we're praying and we're praying about that. To exaggerate to the ridiculous, of course, to make the point, (but why are we even praying, "Lord, which house is it?") "If I get that house, then I have to work only three jobs, my wife two, and I have to sell only one of the kids. If we get this house, then I have to work only two jobs, my wife has to work only one, and we can keep both kids. So, speak Lord." When any violation comes to the general principles of order, of seeking the kingdom of God first, of righteousness first, of the community first, then there's nothing to even think or pray about; it has already been established. We begin to hear this voice of our idols, and the voice of the world, that has convinced us that this will make you happy, this will make you greater; "Here will show your worth, and how great you are, and successful;" with all of those voices we are hearing, we start saying, "Well, God, maybe you want me to do that, because I want to do great things for you." We begin to hear voices that, if the rest of these things are not in order, are not the voice of God. Because what God is going to tell you is, "Get your house in order; don't look for a new one." That's how we mistake the voice of God, by overlooking the delinquent general revelations, and looking for new specific guidance. We always want to hear something new. We've got to go on, and it's our nature to keep this thing rolling, "God's speaking. Tell me what to do next." Stop! Okay? Rest, and mature, and finish what you started; that's what, many times, the voice of God says. What stood out? We were talking; what were some of the things that were standing out? I don't want to take a whole lot of time in the review. We will give some chance for questions, and then go back if they don't have any. Any others, Chuck that stuck out to you?

PASTOR LAROCK: One thing from this morning, and we also talked about it some in the men's meeting yesterday, was how we pursue the ideal in the temporal areas. We want the best home we can get, or the best vacations we can have, or the best job we can have. We strive for excellence, many times, in these temporal areas, and we don't really strive for excellence in Christianity. It shows how depraved we are, and how retarded we are, really. We're seriously deficient that we think all those things are so great while, "I'll just give God some time if I get a chance." We get to call the creator of the universe "Dad," and fellowship with such an awesome being whom we just take for granted so much! He is so incredible that words don't even come close to scratching the surface of what He is! We get to fellowship with Him, and we'd rather be playing with toys or getting promotions. It really just speaks of our condition. There is such joy, and peace, and contentment, really, in pursuing that excellence with Him that we just neglect. We think, "Oh, I've got to have this! Oh, I do have to go pray tonight, but I'll get out pretty soon, and get to do something good. That's the way the flesh is, and if that's the way we're living, we are just not encountering God, that's all, because He doesn't leave you that way.

PASTOR SCOTT: The obvious thing in that scenario is: we are not hearing the voice of God. What we are going to do is, we are going to come to prayer, and we are going to kind of hurry up, so we can get out and have fun, and do something "good." But while we're in prayer we'll ask Him about those houses. We won't worship Him. We won't honor Him. We won't be in awe of Him, but we will ask Him to speak to us about these dung piles, all the while despising His glory, and His majesty, and His awesomeness, and how are we to hear?

PASTOR LAROCK: We think maybe we're increasing our chances of getting that because we're up here putting our time in.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes. That's the tragedy, I think, of missing the voice of God. You miss His presence; you miss the communion, and the fellowship, and the joy, and the peace, and worship the creation more than the Creator. That depravity of Romans is still in everyone's members that we have to war against, and nothing else is going to make you happy but that fellowship with Father. Jeff?

PASTOR HEGLUND: Along those lines, you were sharing about when you're seeking first the kingdom, you are temperate in all other things. Looking at my own life, you were sharing: you know you are temperate when those other things are not a compulsion, you are free to do without them. Whatever it might be in your life, you can get addicted to things: addicted to working out, and if you have to have this workout, then you are not temperate in the Kingdom. Just think of the times in your life when you are free; it is so nice; you are at peace, and you are walking in that peace, and you are free to believe that the Lord has the best for you. When you leave that, you leave the encountering God. Sometimes it is just a gradual process of your being lazy or getting your eyes back on this earthly kingdom. I know, in my life, that just rang so true; you look and see, "Is it this hobby, when I don't get to go do that: kayaking?" If I don't get to go kayaking am I, just, so upset? Now I'm, "Great. I've got to go up and serve, and Pastor called a meeting, and we have to go help people, and make it to heaven and stuff."

PASTOR SCOTT: Kayaking? I thought it was those little miniature motorcycles.

PASTOR HEGLUND: Well, you can't have too many. Whatever it is, I'm definitely a toy person.

PASTOR SCOTT: The point I'm making is: the toys change. We are no different than the kids. "God, I gotta have that. Lord, that will make me happy. Oh, Jesus." The kids, we will give them a present on Christmas and--CRASH! We are adults, so ours last a month, but it doesn't satisfy. What do you think, as you were going on in that illustration. You're looking there (at the toys we are looking for, in the compulsion we talked about, in the addiction) and that's the thing. The addiction is the addiction to self, pleasure. It's not the object. Now, that's the point I was making; it's not the motorcycle, because if you were addicted to it you'd still be addicted to it, but now it's kayaks. So it's not motorcycles and it's not kayaks; it's Jeff, right? (You opened this bag of worms.) We can put each of our names on there (right?) except mine, because I don't do anything in those areas. What we're looking at is: why aren't we addicted to prayer? Why aren't we addicted to the presence of God? Do we get to pray, or do we have to pray? "Man, I just can't wait to get out of this kayak to go pray. Dear Lord, I'll be glad when this round of golf's over so I can go spend some time in the presence of God," or whatever it is. That's where are treasures are, and that's the reality of it all. If we are going to hear voices clearly, then we need to have our treasures--you remember how we started this whole thing. It's talking about: can we handle the truth or not about what our gods are, and who we are, and what condition we're in, and the fact is, as messed up as we are, Father still loves us, and He's bringing us into His relationship; but we will never be better till we have the guts to face up to what we are. As we're being drawn into His presence, that's the thing. We just have to be able to look and say, "Yep, I just am not going to let that dominate my life. I'm going to be temperate." See, these things are bad, and temperance doesn't mean abstinence, it means under control. It's under control. If it comes to praying or kayaking--if it comes to serving and kayaking--(I don't want to pick on Jeff). If it comes to the praying, the Bible study, the serving, and whatever it is in our lives, the golf, the house, whatever it is, I don't grudgingly obey; I willingly obey, I cheerful obey. Obedience and keeping His commandments are not grievous; and when it's there we're okay. That's what we're looking at in being able to hear the voice of God. When we're willing to go willingly (it is He who works in us to will and to do His good pleasure) then we can hear; now we're in a place where we can hear the voice of God, and I think that's important. Steve, were you going to share?

PASTOR HEGLUND: Well, I was going to say, that's a really good test for me. Just to see, it's so nice when you're free, and it's easy to tell when you can just walk away, and it doesn't cost so much, doesn't hurt, you're not bitter, those different aspects.

PASTOR GARDNER: That's fine. You mentioned the thing about praying about the house: this house, that house, car, spouse, whatever. You could take it on to just about anything. I think that often people pray about those things, and they seek counsel about many of those things, and it's really just a whitewash; it's an appeasement, because what's actually happening--and we don't realize it--often is we're becoming earthly minded. We are beginning to be more driven by the lust of our eyes, the lust of our flesh, the pride of life. Yet, if you're praying about it, that's--

PASTOR SCOTT: So we're really saying, "Lord, can I get away with one more act of carnality?"

PASTOR GARDNER: I think it appeases the conscience if you pray about the new house, or the spouse, or whatever it is.

PASTOR SCOTT: You already have your mind made up, what you're going to do, but, "I prayed about it."

PASTOR GARDNER: Right. Exactly. I'm going to get a wife; I'm going to get a new house; but I'd like God's approval. Well, He doesn't care about the house; the wife better be a godly woman, not just whatever is on the list.

PASTOR SCOTT: Some are so anxious it just barley has to be a woman, so it doesn't make a difference. Then we can get in trouble. There again, if we are going to settle for anything but the will of God, then there we are. Just a little bit of overview. Now, let's see if there are any questions that you might look at concerning the teachings. I understand there were a few in some of the home groups last night; if there are we'll try to address from the biblical principles, and show you, how we would go at arriving at the will of God, and see if anybody wants to throw out a case study of something that is just hypothetical, or a friend. Now everybody's going to say, "Oh man. I don't want to ask anything. They're going to think it's me, and it's just a hypothetical question." The first person who asks, we will all believe it as hypothetical if you want us to. Anybody? Yes.

QUESTION: I understand the principles of what you are saying as far as things being in order in your household, and then from there, whether it's a house, a car, a job, going with what is best, what your preference is. I guess the question that's still in my mind has to do with trying to balance that with what I have heard you say before. I know you have used the illustration of a hundred thousand dollar job or a ten thousand dollar job; well, take the hundred thousand dollar job. But, it was sort of implied that that's the case unless God directs you to take the ten thousand dollar job. So, what I am trying to balance in my mind is: is it that God never speaks in those areas, or that generally He does not speak in those areas; go with what's obvious; go with preference unless He directs you in a certain way?

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, and that's the key. Those directions would become to us something that would be, as a rule, like when you came to us and said, "You know, I've got these opportunities, and I really am wrestling with what to do because I really believe this is what God is telling me to do." Most people will not come and say, "I have a hundred thousand dollar job, and a ten thousand job, and I really believe Gods telling me to take the ten thousand dollar job." When somebody comes and tells me that, I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe Gods saying something there," because it's so contrary to the other kingdom. It's so contrary to what natural man wants to do. So when it becomes something that is other-worldly (talking about from the world, verses the other, the spiritual world) then we need to look and say, "Okay now, let me ask you a QUESTION: 'You feel this is God?'" Most of you would say, "That's got to be God. I surely wouldn't do that." My first question would be, "Are you being falsely humble? Have you considered that this can be a hardship on your family? What is it in you that you're sensing?" "I just feel God wants me--", and we're not going to know why. We are not going to know that at that ten thousand dollar job is a guy whom you're going to witness to who is going to go to India and win a million souls for Jesus. We don't know that. What's going to happen is, we are going to look at all these character issues again, "Am I doing this out of a spiritual pride, a false humility? What condition is my life in to make this decision?" Then you say, "I just really feel at peace that this where I'm supposed to go." Then there'd be no reason not to because we're moving against, again, the natural, obvious provisions that natural man lives by. Again, there's nothing wrong for those. Father wants us to be in health and prosper as our souls prosper. Father wants to open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings if we are tithers. Father wants to have men give into our bosom if we are giving first. If all that stuff is in order, then the natural, obvious thing would be (hundred thousand, ten thousand), you take the hundred thousand. "I feel that God wants me to do this." Life's proven; motives are right; there's no false humility; there's no presumptuousness; we know what it's going to cost to do this, etc. Now I'm ready to go with that. But we still have to weigh it against our current character, our current fruit, and all of these other things in our life from previous decisions. Because see it's by reason of use, experience, that we are able to discern good from evil. As we're proven, and we're proven in hearing that voice in these different areas, we get a little more comfortable with what Gods speaking. Anybody have comments along those lines?

PASTOR HEGLUND: One thing. I know the voice of God usually comes in those situations by, like you mentioned generally, just the cost. Am I going to miss services once a week because I take the hundred thousand job? Am I going to have to travel for two months of the year and be away from my family? Just how am I going to be able to fulfill my role as a husband, a part of the body? Is this going to affect those things? That's usually how the voice of God speaks, and it's usually pretty clear in the job decisions. If the cost is clear, usually it's pretty easy to make the decision. If it's not real clear, then it's not a big woo-woo thing; it's like you said; it's a choice. It's not, "Which one do I have a better feeling about and warmth."

PASTOR SCOTT: Steve was saying that in the home group he was in last night, there seemed to be some confusion about the voice, and having to just understand, and know what God is doing. In a case like this, to turn down a hundred thousand dollar job and take a ten thousand dollar job, you don't know what God's doing. He's not going to tell you what He's doing, but you're at peace. I've shared with you in my own testimony; I've done something very similar to that. Everybody I knew in the ministry, God always called him to a bigger church, to a more visible church, to a higher salary. I knew one guy in my life that was called from a huge church to a small church, from a huge salary to a meager salary. When I was faced with that decision, being jealous for God and wanting to hear the voice of God, you're being offered all of this in the natural, and you're sensing this in your spirit, "I'm not comfortable with that," then we can know that God is doing something that is extraordinary. Hence, we ended up here instead of there, and there's no question that Father's ordered our steps, in my spirit, over these years. Hopefully, that helps a little bit. Was there anything else?

QUESTION: The only other question I have is, let's take those extremes out, and say they are both perfectly desirable options. You are looking at Mercedes or you are looking at BMW. "Okay, I have the finances; I can make the decision; I don't have a strong preference. Is it possible that God would come in and say, "No, not the Mercedes," because, as you alluded to, maybe there is a mechanic at the BMW place you are going to witness to. Something you don't realize is going to happen down the road, or is God never going to say anything about those areas.

PASTOR SCOTT: Those areas that I was talking to them on the way up--those areas that we all sense, "I just sense that I'm not to get the Mercedes; I'm just supposed to get the BMW, and I just sense that." Then go with that. Is that God? The fruit will tell. The point I'm making is, we don't need to get all worked up in having to know right now; the fruit will tell. You'll find out somewhere. As you pull out of the BMW dealership and you're driving down the road, and the guy's broken down in the Mercedes along side the road, then you'll praise God. The key to that, I think, is what I was sharing with Chuck; when we get--and I've had this happen: I mean it just happens a lot, but you're not seeking it. See, it comes, and that's the difference. You go to the airport and you say, "Uh, I'm going to this counter." You're in the airport in London and you think, "Why don't we just check this?" You go, and they say, "You know what, we do have these seats in upgrade, and I'll give them to you," and you go, "Praise God." It wasn't praying, "O Lord God! Lord, this is such a long trip, and we're on a missions work, and Lord can you make a way," and "Dear God," and "Speak Lord," and "Who," and "What." God initiates; you have that intuitive voice; you move; the fruit evidences it was God. But we are not seeking it; we're just walking. Now the whole issue was, and I say that just to say, that's what happened with Greer and me on the way over to Africa. The issue was: we were going to Africa. God told us to go, actually. I didn't want to go. We're on our way. We were going to go if we had to walk, whatever it was. So you're just kind of minding your own business, and felt, "I think we'll just go down there and ask a question at the counter."

QUESTION:...we begin to see character flaws, weaknesses, in us as to character that needs to be built in us so that we can then begin to get revelation from Father to order our households, direct our lives, things of that nature.

PASTOR SCOTT: Just try to make sure that our terminology is correct. Addiction to spectacular; addiction would imply something that we have to have. If I understand the question right: do we have to have the spectacular: a voice, handwriting on the wall, "Mene, Mene, Tekel Upharsin," whatever (and that's probably would be written if you were looking for it). Do we have to have that to obey? Are we discontent unless we've heard from God that way? I'm not content with a counselor. I'm not content with a more mature Christian's life that I'm going to follow as an example, being followers of those who though faith and patience are inheriting. I'm not satisfied with the written revelation of God's Word that tells me what to do with my children, to train them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, to build memorials for them to understand the inheritance of God, to bring them and say, "Look, children; here is what God has done in our lives. It's here so we don't forget that He's the one who has blessed us. I have to have whatever the spectacular thing is; then, what's happened is, we've made an idol out of the method of ministry rather than the truth. We've shared the principle that if that's what you have to have, then you will be answered according to your idols, and a lying spirit will come to you, and you'll have all the supernatural visitations you want, but it won't be God. It's important, then, for us to be content in God's general method of revelation, which is the Word of God, counselors, and examples of the believer; and if that doesn't satisfy us we will be deceived, and I think that's important. Does that answer the question? I didn't know if I understood it entirely, so I wanted to make sure. Anybody else? Any other questions along this aspect of the will of God, the voice of god, the guiding of the Holy Spirit, the truth we are seeking? Everybody got a hold of the fact that the voice that goes off inside of you is not truth? This [holds up Bible] is truth. That voice that goes off inside you is possibly being influenced by the truth, but it could also be being influenced by society, and the flesh, and your lusts. This is the more sure word of prophecy, and everything has to be compared with this. The more this is in order in our lives, the more we can be comfortable with that voice. What has that voice in the past produced? What's the fruit of that voice that you are so confident is the voice of God? When's the last time you heard that voice and it didn't turn out to be God, and you heard it again and it didn't turn out to be God; and it didn't turn to be God if it's the flesh? If you walk in the spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The lust of the flesh is the addiction, compulsion, the bondage to the temporal, to the worldly. We've tried to establish the fact: that is not what God predominantly speaks to us about. If that's what we're predominantly praying about, then they are idols and you're going to be deceived in what's being spoken to you. It's very important that we get that part of this teaching. Any other questions or clarifications that we might want? Yes.

QUESTION: This is along the lines of the relationship teaching. I am already married but I have been thinking about this. There's something Pastor Jeff said at Young Adults as he was talking about the perfect will of God. When you get into a relationship, and you are looking for a life's mate, that affects the Kingdom; it has eternal consequence. I'm just wondering how, you've talked about the sensing, the intuition, or what the Lord is saying to me, how might the Lord be speaking to me. This is an important decision; it's not a job, it's a person; it's another life. How do you start to know what the Lord might be showing you, speaking to you? You just mentioned the general methods God uses, but does God stay within those generals or can He speak specifically; will He speak specifically? How do you seek that perfect will of God?

PASTOR SCOTT: We know all the generals, right? It's got to be a believer; that's number one. We've got to be married in the Lord. From there, as we've shared in the past, any two Christians committed to doing the will of God can have a viable marriage. Is there a soul mate? Is there someone that God has specifically for me, and if I miss that person--? If there is, God will see to it that you get together. That's the confidence that we have to have. If God has established it that way, that there is one person, the person, then God will see to it that we get together. If God can work all things for good, if God is able to take two people who are seeking first the kingdom and them covenanted together, and fulfill everything that He intends a marriage to be; if He can do that then these general principles are sufficient, because that is the perfect will of God. The acceptable will of God is when I demand my list and I get married, and it didn't turn out to be everything I thought it was, and every morning I wake up to quail. Then God works in each of these lives, and through purging, and disciplines, and trials, and we both do have (though we didn't start off in) the same revelation and commitment. God can bring that into something viable if each of us will submit to the purging, chastening wisdom of God. That's acceptable. I think that's how we need to see it rather than a soul mate type understanding, because it's based, again, on character; it's based upon the glory of God, and not the gratification of man, is the whole issue. Two are better than one, at what? Glorifying God. Building the kingdom. Raising up a godly seed. That's what marriage is all about. Marriage is not about my personal gratification and contentment. All those things will be there in a godly marriage, but that's not what I'm seeking. What I'm seeking is a godly woman. The perfect woman for every man in here is the Proverbs 31 woman, and most of us aren't looking in Proverbs we're looking in the Song of Solomon. That's where we need to make the distinction. Any other comments along the lines of the marriage in some of those areas that you guys want to add? I'm doing well tonight. Get out of Songs of Solomon and get into Proverbs. Any other questions that we might have? That was a good question. Are you going to ask about marriage?

QUESTION: In some of the more menial, the things that are more temporal, God is not necessarily going to speak unless it's something that going to be more supernatural that you don't know at the moment. If you are a person who has a spiritual life, and there's life and there's fruit there, is God's peace a way He speaks to you. Can you take decisions based on that you know you have confidence in Father, and He loves you enough to either give you peace about it or cause turmoil in your spirit?

PASTOR SCOTT: You know, as we've taught in the past on walking in the spirit, peace is a great guideline as to hearing the voice of God and walking in the spirit, because the kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy. Am I at peace? Have I lost my joy? Am I content in this? Is this right? Is this relational? Because righteousness is just our relationship with Jesus. The question was on the premise of the spiritual fruit that's been evidenced in your life; you're a fairly mature believer. The Scripture says that it's by reason of use that our senses are exercised to discern good and evil. I'm an experienced Christian; I know what it is. My life's fruit shows that I've heard from God, and that I'm committed to God, and that I'm submitted to His working in my life, and I'm not comfortable with this. Then that's a very good indication that something is out of order here, the moment your peace begins to be unsettled. Now, you may not ever understand why you're losing the peace. God doesn't have to tell us, but that is a way of sensing, "Okay, when I'm there I'm not moving. I'm not making any decisions when I'm not at peace. I'm not going anywhere; I'm waiting till I hear from God in the next area of my life, whatever it might be." That's important for us, to be able to experience that rest that is in the spirit. The laboring to enter into the rest of God is the labor of obedience. Those are areas we need, to have confidence in that inner peace. Did you guys want to comment on the peace of God?

PASTOR LAROCK: That would be subordinate to more clear revelations in the Scripture. For example, if a husband wanted to take a decision and a wife didn't have peace about it but the husband said, "This is what we're going to do," then the clear biblical revelation is that you submit. There are multiple ways we receive guidance from God and some are stronger and more to be relied on than others.

PASTOR SCOTT: A wise husband, if a wife says, "I just don't have peace about it," (we're more rational, women are more sensitive, more emotionally oriented, so don't ask her to answer like a man. "Give me four reasons why.") should ask, "What are you sensing about this?" "Well, I don't know exactly what it is,--"it may be something, I can't think of any right now.

PASTOR LAROCK: "I don't have peace about you spanking the children."

PASTOR SCOTT: Right. That would be pretty easy to take care of. If it's not a definite, obvious thing that can be said, say, "I'm not comfortable with this. I just feel this," then the man would have to say, "Well, let me think about. It I'll give it some more consideration in that area. Based upon the severity of the consequence of being wrong, we would probably determine how quickly we would follow through with our original decision. If it was something of the magnitude of stopping and eating at McDonald's, you might have to take some time to really consider the consequence of that. If it's one that's not of great consequence, you might be correct to say, "No, we're going to do this." If being wrong could have grave consequence then you'd probably spend twenty seconds and say, "No, we're going to this." Those would be wise things to do, but as Chuck was saying, that peace in an individual is always subordinate to the order of everything around us.

PASTOR LAROCK: The reason I mentioned that is because, sometimes, those who are following and those who are in a subordinate role don't have the responsibility, and they don't have the call to be able to make decisions like that, which can lead into paths of suffering or discomfort or dis-ease. Sometimes a person can say, "I don't have peace about that," but, really, it's just, "That looks like it's going to be uncomfortable." The leader is the one who is in charge, whether it's the leader of a home or a fellowship, and he says, "This is what we need to be doing right now."

PASTOR SCOTT: That's a good observation. In those areas, the men would respond and say, "Well, I can understand, but when you seek first the kingdom you'll have righteousness, peace, and joy. Let's look to the eternal; let's look to the kingdom, and the peace will come through obedience." Those are very important things. As those of us who are living in a corporate entity, as a young single adult, for instance, you don't live to yourself and die to yourself, but you should still seek some counsel. Whether you do have peace or the peace is broken, I would, depending on the magnitude of the decision, seek some good counsel, and look for two or three witnesses. Any other questions? Yes.

QUESTION: So, basically, we need to use all we learned in the whole self-deception teaching, then apply what we're discussing now on top of that.

PASTOR SCOTT: Right. Those different areas of coming to grips with who we are and what our tendencies are, realizing that part of ourselves, and once we've considered that, then provide with it the wisdom of seeking counsel and the general Word of God which applies to a given situation; and when all of that's been put out there, then you can be pretty confident that you're hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit in whatever it is He's ordering in our lives right now. Then you'll be at that peace because you're living in obedience. We'll take one more. Anybody else? We'll finish it up for tonight. I hope, practically, this has been able to affect some of your lives. It's an important thing, and guard against over confidence of "That's God," especially when you're dealing with these things that are mundane and secular. Do what I did; just go read every verse in the Bible on "God said," "the Holy Spirit said," whatever. Then see what God talks about; it's not the secular. That's what most of us are saying Gods talking to us about. "I feel the Lords told me to do this," and "I feel the Lords told me to do that," and "I feel God said." We're all emphasizing that, and the things that God talks about like character, righteousness, peace, joy, seeking the kingdom first, being witnesses, whatever, whatever. What's God saying about that? "I don't know." Don't be deceived in what Father has to say to you. Anybody? We're finishing up with this. The eyes of the Lord are searching to and fro, looking for--God's speaking, going, going--.

Thank you, Father, for your wisdom, your Word that's alive in us. Every one of us, Father, walks daily with a desire to be about your business, to do your will. Your Word has assured us that the Spirit would lead us into all truth, that the steps of a good man are ordered by you, and that you would not leave us comfortless. So we rest in the ministry of the comforter, who speaks not of himself but brings to remembrance all things that Jesus said. He who speaks and says, "This is the way walk in it." What is that way? The way of obedience, the way of emulating the Master, not speaking our words, but the words of He who sent us. Not living for our own lives, but to fulfill the purpose for which Jesus was sent. The establishing of the kingdom. The regeneration of a dead society. The empowering of a church, which would bring forth fruit that remains. Let us hear that, Father. The heralding of what we have so freely received; the affirming of it to a godly seed; the finishing of the course, that we might hear well done. Everything that pertains to that, give us ears to hear. Nothing else is worth hearing; it's not important, but that you'd be glorified. It's our hearts' desire, Father, and we ask it in Jesus' name; amen. Praise God. Before you go, just say, "The Spirit leads us into truth." Amen. Go in peace; Gods love go with you.

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