Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Panel Discussion - Living in Liberty

PASTOR SCOTT: Praise you, Father. Amen! As the rest of the men are on their way up here, we're getting ready to shift gears and go into the study on conscience. We're going to look some, as I said, at stumbling blocks, and that has to do many times with individual conscience being abused.

Before we go in that avenue and get too far down the road--I thought we'd go ahead and take the evening--deal with some of the subject matter that we've gone over to this point. Some of the things we dealt with in Men's Breakfast, Home Fellowship Groups. Hopefully there will be some practical things that we can look at and help with. The understanding of carnal-mindedness and helping, as parents especially, and many of us as Young Adults, and not so Young Adults, and not so not so Young Adults, to really be able to draw the distinctions between what is the amoral from the Spirit-filled perception, and when the amoral or secular becomes immoral; when it's of a spirit of independence, a spirit that's embracing and pursuing the world and the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

Two people can be involved in the same exact activity and one be in sin and the other one not. That's what we need to understand as it pertains to certain secular, amoral things. The secular becomes immoral when it's independent from God. We want to look at some of those aspects.

We want to talk again about directing some of our youth, how to relate to them and bring them to the place within the parameters of the law of being able to develop their own conscience, of being able to hear from God and not feel that as parents that we have to clone them into our exact image. I mean, they've got your DNA, they've got enough flaws; then to make them exactly like us? What is it that makes us think that we need to clone an exact replica? We want to see them be able to make decisions and mature within the parameters of the law and our oversight. They're going to do things differently than you. I mean, you stand back and you look at it. You have two children and they're totally different; but they're exactly like the combination of the two of you in certain areas. To try to make them both the same entity is going to provoke to wrath. It's going to take away that individual that we are, or to make it a scriptural term, members in particular, that are being placed into the body as it pleases who--Him. Many of us as parents want to place them in a certain way into the body or make them into a certain image instead of allowing the Lord to make them the best "them" they can be. We want to make them into our image. We want to make them into our ideal. Because of that, many of us sin by putting restraints and making our children weak because we're afraid of what others will think if they dress like this, talk like this, or whatever else; and that reflects upon me, and people will think I'm not holy, and I'm not doing my job. This walk in liberty is the liberty from that. It's the liberty to be able to be free to glorify God, to become more Christ like, to be out from under the Luke passage that we dealt with so much, seeking to be esteemed of men. It's an abomination to God; it brings a reproach on His lordship.

When we guide our children, how are we guiding them? Are we guiding them and causing them to mature and make decisions and allow them to make mistakes that are not detrimental to their spiritual well being and their eternal state? Yeah, they're going to make some immature decisions because they're immature. We want to allow them to make decisions at the right time. Then there are times that we step in and say, "No, you're not going to do that."

I've shared before with Kimberly growing up. We'd let her dress herself, and she, in the seventies especially, she would come up with some bizarre outfits. Here she was a little person, and she was in--"I can do that." She wanted--she'd dress. She looked like she'd been on LSD, some garb. Who would have thought? Now everything has to match and matching colors and all of this? It's like she got a hold of something somewhere. Then the interesting thing is that's because she was going to be around the house, and she was playing and she wanted to dress and do these things; and we'd let her make these decisions. She sure wasn't going to wear that to church. We would then step in and say, "Well, here's what you're going to wear now. This is the choice. Here's what you're going to wear now." They're taught then to subordinate to that, and that's fine. You go down the road with it, and that was acceptable; but she was allowed to make decisions when it was not damaging. That's probably not the best illustration, but it gives a little bit of an idea of what we're talking about.

As they got older, we still let them make decisions. We let them make decisions. "I want to go . . ." This one will cause some confusion, I know. The kids, even as they get older, even into college, some of the guys, "We're going to go out over to so-and-so's and eat pizza and watch a movie or whatever." Even when my kids were in college, I'd say, "Well, do you have all your stuff done?" "Well, yeah, most of it." You don't say, "Bring your assignment here; let me see." Go, because if you don't do it, there are consequences; It's called "F." It's called, I didn't make the Dean's List. I'm on probation. "Well, you know, I couldn't allow that; I've got to get in and I got to save my . . ." "I've got to make sure that they do this." When are you going to let them make a decision? When are you going to let them grow up? That's not going to kill them to fail on that paper, but somewhere they've got to make a mistake; and they've got to realize in life that to every wrong decision, there's a consequence. Somewhere they're going to learn that, and I'd rather they learn it down here in kindergarten than in college. Those are the things that we need to look at in some of these areas also of liberty. When do you allow them, and how much do you speak; and what do you require? Hopefully, we'll look at some of the practical aspects of that.

Let's go into a couple of the issues we talked about yesterday in Men's Breakfast if you wanted or anything else that came fresh from this morning's teaching or in the past, and then see if there's any questions that we have to deal with.

PASTOR LAROCK: We were talking about this some in the back tonight. That is, when parents can use rules as a substitute for a relationship. In other words, they don't really get involved with their children, they just make rules. It's easy for the parent to say, "You're not going to do this; you're not going to do that," and just make rules. That way it makes it easier for you because then you don't have to sit down and talk with the child and hear their heart and communicate principles to them; you just say, "We don't this, and we don't do that." When they're little kids, of course, we've talked to you about that before, that when they're little you don't explain things because they don't understand them anyway, when they're little toddlers and sometimes even the younger elementary. They don't understand; there's just a lot of yes and no, but I'm talking about when the kids begin to get older that it's a lot easier for you to say, "No, we're not doing that. No, you're not going to do that. This is what you're going to do", and just give a bunch of rules and maybe even write them out and put them in their room. "Now, you can watch TV for a half an hour for the next six years, and we'll discuss it again when you're 18." That's exaggerating, but to make a point that as parents, we need to be involved with our children and explain to them the convictions that we have and the principles from the Scriptures that we live by. The Word of God that we love, that guides our lives, and that we want to be pleasing to the Lord in the way that we use our time; and it's not just a list of rules. It's easy for parents to just make rules for their own convenience because it's easier, this is a rule, and it's over. Now, don't bother me with it. We just love ourselves too much. We don't want to be bothered. We got the things that we want to do with our time, this is kind of a hassle. We can't do that as parents. We've got to be involved with our kids and hear them and let them talk and really communicate our hearts to them, so they know why we decide, why we make the decisions that we make. A brother was just sharing with me a testimony last night at Home Fellowship Group about--it was really a blessing to hear how his daughter was able to see that dad--something that dad was requiring of her. "We're not going to be able to get this item right now that you want." And she said, "Well, that's kind of what you did, dad, with this other thing." This thing that she knew that dad wanted. That's a good example how principles and things that are important to us are communicated to the kids. They see, "Oh, Dad, I can see that you did that, and now, this is what you're asking me to do. You're asking me to go without this thing for a good reason, and I can see that you went without that thing that thing that you wanted for this reason, because you felt it was something that the Lord would have you to do at this time." It's relationship and communicating your heart to your kids and not just rules.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, and I think one of the things came up at Men's Breakfast that's disturbing, and it always has been. I've always thought it was interesting people will say, "Well, how come, why don't you do this?" They say, "Well, my church won't let me. My church doesn't believe in that. My parents don't believe that." We need to get our own convictions. Even if as a teenager, you don't have that conviction or you don't even understand fully the principle in your heart, it would be good to even verbalize it, would be, "Well, I don't completely understand, but my parents have said that this isn't good because of [and you can even spout or parrot the principle], and you know what? They're more experienced than I am, and I think when I get older, I'll probably understand it. I have confidence in my counselors, and based upon this principle and the counsel of my counselors, I choose not to participate in that. I choose to believe that my parents are wise. I choose to believe that this principle that they've shared with me out of the Bible that I don't fully understand is right because I choose to believe Jesus is the Lord of my life; that's why I don't do it." That's a whole lot different than saying, "My church won't let me." What you're basically saying is, "I really don't believe that thing is wrong, and I would embrace it if I wasn't being restrained." That's a distinction that each has to make in their own heart. Why am I? Am I choosing because I believe its wisdom although I don't understand it? My flesh would like to participate in it, but I've been told if I put that gun to my head and pull the trigger, it will kill me. I haven't ever participated in that before, but I'm believing the counsel.

These are some of the things that I think we need to get in our spirit, not only our young people but many of us. I choose to believe that will not edify me, that it will not make me a better Christian, that it is not profitable. That will strengthen us in our resolve and give us some of these convictions that we need that will cause us to be able to stand. I think that's an important part. Of course, the Scriptures are full of that instruction, reproof; it's a way of life. You never grow out of it. We always need others' input into our lives. There's safety in a multitude of counselors. I don't always know everything. When adolescents can believe and begin to understand that it's normal to think you know everything at that age, but to have the wisdom of the Word of God that says you don't, and you need to submit to your counselors and to choose to believe the Word over your own insanity that you know more, then you're going to be safe. That's the conviction that I think many of us need to work in, especially as young people.

Then it trickles down to all of these trivial things that we've talked about, music, clothes, and styles, whatever it is. When a parent says, "Now, that's not the best thing." and it's not a habit of mine in the home trying to micro-manage and make you a mini-me, then they're not going to resent it. It's not going to be a provocation; it's going to be a thing of thinking, "Well, they've always chosen best for me. Their lives are in order. They're seeking God." They're seeing the fruit in your life. You're spending time dialoging with your young people, and as Chuck was saying, so many of us, especially as the kids begin to get older--it's one thing to have little ones. "Okay, it's eight o'clock, everybody to bed." Now, mom and dad can do whatever they do as the kids are asleep. All of a sudden, these adolescents come in and infringe on your time, and now everybody's not in bed at eight o'clock. You can either provoke them by saying, "You're going to bed at eight o'clock." "Yeah, but I'm the president of the company; I just got a call." "You're going to bed." Somewhere you've got to realize that there's a change going on. Here's a senior in High School, and he's still going to bed at eight o'clock. Buddies are calling up. "Hey, we're going to go down and get pizza, and we're going over to so-and-so's house." You say, "Well, can it be done by 7:50?" You got to be home and be in bed by eight o'clock. Your kids are going to resent that, frankly. "Well, that's my conviction,. That's what I believe, and that's what I think is best for my child." You can follow through on that, and you'll be sorry. "Well, I don't want my child out of the house because he's really out of control, and he's stupid; and I can't trust him." You go, "Well, okay, why not have all the other kids over at your house?" "You kidding? I'm not having all those stupid, untrustworthy other teenagers coming over to my house!" You've got to make some decisions to let them grow, to trust, to train them up in the way that they should go, believe when they're old they'll not depart from it. They need to be somewhere where we know what's going on. They need to be in earshot.

I was sharing with them in the back, practical things. You have teenagers in your home; somebody calls. Your children should not have a cell phone or a phone in their rooms where they're talking to people, and you don't know what's going on. How do you know what they're talking about? When people used to call our house, other teenagers would call our house, my kids would sit there on the phone that was out in the common area, and they would talk to whomever they were talking to. Now, I didn't sit there and go...[mimics eavesdropping] One of the two of us would periodically walk through, enough to get a gist of what's going on. If we didn't get through as many times as we thought we would, then we'd say, "Who was that? What are you guys talking about? Where you going? What you planning? What's happening?" I want to know what the kids are doing. I want to know where they're going. I want to know what's the treasure of their heart. I want to know who they're hanging with. I want to know all this stuff. We've got way too much privacy for many of our young people.

Again, you see, I'm saying there's balance here, and just . . . "Well, don't you trust them?" It's not a matter of trust; it's a matter of guidance. It's not untrusting, it's knowing laws. It's knowing what is potential in everybody's flesh: to gossip, to covet, foolish jesting. You can go down the line, and you guide these different things. I think we're living in a society, again, with all these cell phones, everybody's got his stuff and people doing that whatever, that dialing all those letters in to send messages to people. Kids are hiding under their blankets, chik, chik, chik, chik, doing that kind of stuff. Kids have got their own email accounts that have 40 hundred cryptic whatever, so the parents can't get in and see what they're--I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but do you know what your kids are doing? Do you even know your children? Most of us don't that were sinners before our kids were born because many of us are judging our Christian kids by what we were as sinners. You need to realize this kid's Spirit-filled. He's probably not the idiot we were, but they still need guidance; they're still adolescents. Hopefully, these will be some of the things in liberty that we don't start bringing them under bondage based upon our fears because "That's what I did when I was their age." They're not you; they're born again; they're Spirit-filled. Base it upon the fruit of your child's life. Then as they become more mature, of course; last year I began to allow my daughter to talk on the phone without me being there, and as she's grown and matured. There's a time when that proves itself, so those are practical things that, hopefully, some of us can look at. Any other comments along that particular line or anything else you want to open up? Be thinking of some questions if you have any, practical or doctrinal; we'll address it.

PASTOR MILLER: This is a little different, but I hope it fits in because what you were sharing there was so good. I was meeting with some parents the other day and sharing with them about disciplining their elementary child. I was trying to draw the distinction that there are times when the child doesn't do what they are told to do from disobedience, from stubbornness, rebellion; and that, of course, calls for a spanking. Then, there are, very possibly, times where the child just forgot. They weren't trying to be self-willed or rebellious. We all have times, especially as we get older, when you get up and go do something and halfway there you forgot what you were doing.

PASTOR SCOTT: It cycles. You do that when you're five years old, and it starts again when you're fifty.

PASTOR MILLER: That's good. I still have a few more years.

PASTOR SCOTT: Others start earlier.

PASTOR MILLER: I mean, when you do that, your wife doesn't take out a paddle and spank you. Maybe she does; I don't know. Maybe that's a whole other problem. I thought of this when Chuck was sharing because sometimes we administer discipline very legalistically. Again, like Chuck was sharing, it's easier just to whack them rather than really minister to them. I was sharing with the parents that if it's a thing where you're-- maybe you had a seven-year-old that's bouncing off the walls or maybe you have a teenager that's going through adolescence, and maybe they plain forgot; and they weren't trying to disobey. They asked, "Well, how do you know the difference?" Well, you know the difference when you know your child. See, it's easy just to whack them for every offense and everything that even appears like an offense and just get it over with and get out of my hair. That'll teach them not to do it again. But if you take time and really get to know your child, then you can tell the difference. When they forgot, they still need discipline, but it's a positive discipline. You approach it from a completely different way. If you just whack them every time they do something that causes you some inconvenience, then you're going to provoke them to wrath. That's part of liberty too of being free of not having to just legalistically, cookie cutter, hit them every time. You're really getting to know your child and understand what phase of life they're going through, why they did what they did, and you can minister accordingly and bring about productive positive discipline in times when it's not a case of disobedience or sin.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, and it comes back again. What you're saying is so true. We as parents, many times we want to intervene, and we would like to whack them and think, "Well, that solves all things." Well, their offense of forgetting may have had other consequences. Their offense; they didn't get their homework done. They got a zero; they failed; they stayed back. Now, I'm going to the extreme, but what starts happening in the parent's mind? "Oh, we're going to be perceived as bad parents. He's twelve, and I was planning to enroll him in Harvard next year," All of these dreams are down the toilet because the kid got--and everybody's panicking. There are consequences. If you don't do your work, you don't get the grade. You fail. You get what you deserve, and you go on from there. As parents, so many times, we're responding based upon our own pride and our own fears, and we're more concerned with whether I'm being inconvenienced or whether I'm getting a bad image than whether our children are getting character built in them or not. We need to--I think the greatest lessons we can begin to teach these children are that there are consequences, both positive and negative, to the decisions we're making. You make good decisions, there are positive consequences. You make bad decisions, there are negative consequences. So often, we're always trying to run and keep consequences that are especially bad from happening when that's part of the learning process. "Because I didn't do that, now I can't go with my buddies that are going out right now because I have to stay home and do what I was told to do, that dad told me to do." All the other guys are going, and you're home cutting the lawn. "Well, you know, I forgot." "Well, okay, now, why was it that you forgot?" "I think I forgot because I was taking a nap. I had a bad dream that you would ask me to cut the lawn, and I couldn't remember whether it was real." Here you are, and you didn't get the lawn cut, and so there's a consequence. You can't go. "Ah, come on, how come, dad?" "Okay, you go, and you can cut the lawn then in the morning." "Okay." Morning comes, opportunity for the family to load up and go watch the Orioles play. "Okay, we're going to go watch the game, and as soon as we get back from the early game, you're going to cut the lawn before it gets dark." It rains, and you wake up the next morning, and its church. Then pretty soon the house is disappearing behind the lawn. Now, we as parents are making decisions and we're--because of our convenience or whatever else. There's never--we're living in a society to where there are no consequences, and our kids need to understand there are consequences for bad choices. Go ahead.

PASTOR HEGLUND: I was trying to think of practical things in remembering. You were saying there are consequences to bad choices, and a lot of times with the kids, so much has changed even since I was in high school, I guess 14 years ago or something ...

PASTOR SCOTT: Whoa!

PASTOR HEGLUND: in terms of the prosperity and the draw of the world and the different ways that the world gets into our homes and into our lives, the flash, and the Internet, the local mall now. There are just a lot of different things that are--the world's just right there in your face. I was trying to think of practical things in my own life because in a lot of ways, I like to think that I can still relate to the teenagers better than being a teenage parent, although I know that day is coming. One of the things that I think really impacted me, and still does, as I watch is the folks, my parents, yourself, especially, is just how transparent an example you were to share the different decisions before you were saved and even after you were saved that were not the best decisions; kind of like the Lord instructed the children of Israel. This prosperity is--and as I'm blessing you, take care to make sure that you're training up your kids as you walk in the way and as you lie down. Like Chuck was saying, it's not just about the rules, but it's, "Hey, we were in bondage in Egypt." I can remember hearing the stories in high school. I can remember even before I came to school here, my dad sharing with me about drinking and getting drunk, and there were some funny things that happened; but it was awful, and here's what it's all about. This is what I can remember some of the mistakes that some of you all have made when I was in high school, some of the bigger mistakes, and how some of you would share with me, this is why I made this mistake because it was about my image; and I wanted to be noticed, and I wanted everybody to think I was cool. This is what it led to, and, now, this is what I'm dealing with every day of my life because of that decision. I know something I'm not really good at probably because of my own pride, I'm trying to get better, to just share from my own experience with the kids, the teenagers, my own kids, but these are the mistakes that I've made, and being transparent in the mistakes as well as the good stuff. For the most part, I've been very blessed. I got married a virgin, and I didn't have to go through drinking and a lot of these different things, but there are other things that I've made mistakes in. But like you've shared in the liberty teaching, it's really a choice who you're going to believe, but I know for me it's nothing that I can boast in. It's a thing of there are a lot of people willing to lay down their own pride and take time as parents, as teachers, as pastors, to make themselves very vulnerable and say, "This is something that really looks fun, and it was kind of fun to think about, and for that one moment, but now, here's the scar and here's what I'm bearing. Here's the effect that it has, and the Lord's healing, and He's so faithful, but you don't have to do that. You can be freer to be used in the Kingdom. I think that's something that's really helped me practically that I try to do, but grow in it.

PASTOR SCOTT: The treasure of innocence; you can't get it back. That's what was lost in the Garden with Adam and Eve. You can't ever recover it. Humanity's stained. To the degree that we can be innocent as it has to do with our temples and to keep ourselves pure and undefiled sexually, to keep our minds pure from all of the secular that can become sin. Once you begin to pollute the sacred, you can't get it back; you can't become innocent. You can become pure again, but you can't become innocent again because it's always there. The thought's always there. The consequence is always there. You can be recleansed, you can be purified, but you can't be innocent again. You can only be innocent by not partaking. Innocence is what we're trying to get many of you to experience. The world's telling you that you're a freak, and you're a sissy if you're innocent, especially guys. Guys need to experience this. The greatest human being that ever lived was innocent. He died for us, but He was innocent. That's who we're trying to emulate. That's who we want to be like. We want that mind in us that's in Christ Jesus. Those are the things that you don't need--all these scars--and you don't need all this propaganda, that's a lie.

Be wise, and listen to the counsel. "Well, you know, they do just not want us to have fun." That's what the devil told Adam and Eve; God just didn't want you to have fun. Now, either be smart enough to accept the wisdom, to see the distinction, or go get burned like the rest of us have. The law is you're going to get burned. You're going to get hurt, and you may die. It's not going to get easier. It's going to get harder as this day's coming on us, the supernatural ability to cause us to believe a lie. The churches today, go into churches; sin's being eradicated. We don't talk about sin anymore. We talk about--in most the churches today, we talk about victims. We talk about--what are some of the . . . Yeah, addictions and sickness, illness. Everybody's "ill." "Yeah, disease, I have a . . . I got a . . ." "This kid's got an attention deficit;" the kid's a brat. I can fix him. I guarantee you I can get that kid's attention; you give him to me for a while. These are some of the things that everybody's sick, everybody's got a disease, everybody is innocent and a victim; and we've got to change that in our thinking, or we're going to become victims to sin and death.

Any questions? We're going to take a few here. Then, if not, I want to share a few more--we'll share a couple more doctrinal thoughts. Are there any practical questions on what we've taught so far about liberty, walking in liberty, don't use your liberty as an occasion to the flesh? Are we all clear on the different aspects of how we relate to the law of God as believers, non-believers, the teacher, the schoolmaster, the counselor, the moral law, the pharisaical law, etc.? Is everybody clear on that? Any questions about those things? Just kind of go back in your mind, go over the subject matter, and we'll deal with them if there are any. Anybody? Oh, you got it down? You know exactly what to do with your teenagers, and so we're all in order? Praise God, then we get to go home early tonight. No questions? You guys have any other things that you need to share, or any questions that you might have?

PASTOR MILLER: Just one thing. I was at a Home Fellowship Group last night, and it was a real blessing. I think it would be a blessing to you to know, as well. I would say probably the majority of the people there said that they understand liberty this time around in a completely different light. Instead of seeing liberty as these things that I can go and involve myself with in the secular, they finally saw liberty for what it was, liberty to serve God with all of our heart and liberty from sin. They finally saw that as the biblical definition of liberty, so that was really exciting to see.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, it's good. Of course, the pendulum is swinging and in people's minds, and as we dealt with liberty before, we were dealing with an environment in our fellowship up here that was very legalistic; and we had people judging others on their own consciences. We had people that were--and we'll get into this in our next session, but people that were so afraid. You'd invite them over to your house, and you'd get ready to eat, and they'd want to know if this steak had been offered to an idol because "I don't want to defile myself." And so afraid of doing something that they're in bondage. We were talking about the fact that there isn't bondage there. Then, tragically, what happens in people's minds is this pendulum swings, and the next thing you know it's being used as an occasion to the flesh. Then, we're defending our rights with disputable matter decisions and "Who are you to speak into my life?" and "You're trying to put me under the law. I've got rights, and I'm free." It went way too far the other way, and to begin to see then where is this liberty? The liberty is, as we've been teaching, it's, "Yeah, I'm not under the Judaizers' skepticism and bondage of righteousness through works. I'm not abstaining from that to merit myself with God. I'm abstaining because that doesn't edify me. There's no reason for me to partake of that."

PASTOR MILLER: Really, like in Romans 8 and in James, we're not free from the righteousness of the law because the righteousness of the law is to be fulfilled in us. We will be judged by the law of liberty, but we're free from the bondage of the law of having to merit our salvation through works. So, like you were teaching and emphasizing, we're not free from law. It's just that's not the foundation of our salvation anymore, so we're no longer under fear and bondage. Now we have the liberty to obey.

PASTOR SCOTT: The law and the law that would come in, the law of the traditions of men, the law of righteousness through works that so many people boasted in and made Christ of no effect to us; many people in wanting to be more righteous begin to think that it's abstaining from these things that make me right with God rather than the partaking of these things. Then we begin to judge others who in conscience are able to do whatever they do. Like we mentioned the example this morning, here's the guy that doesn't sell his Mercedes, and some of us are going to want to judge him because he's covetous. This guy's covetous. He's keeping that Mercedes. We're all giving money to the missions project or whatever, and this guy's driving around a Mercedes. Well, you can't--that's not for us to judge, Paul said. You can't judge that. You don't know what's in their heart. You don't know what God's telling them. Where I can judge him is if he's not tithing. Where I can judge him is if he's not providing for his family. Where I can judge him is if he's oppressing the poor among us. Where I can judge him has to do with these things, so we have to be very careful that there's not a self-righteousness and an asceticism that comes in, thinking that abstinence and an ascetic lifestyle is equated to holiness. Godliness with contentment is great gain. So a godlike person content in whatever God has provided them with is what we're trying to get to. Those are the areas that we have to rest in. To be free to rest in what God's blessed me with and not under the bondage of how people are judging me is that freedom that we're talking about, not wanting to be esteemed of men. I'm not taken up with your judgment of me but God's judgment, and I'm talking about these things that are not overt sin. That's important for us, to walk in that liberty. I'm not better if I abstain. I'm not worse if I partake. That's what Paul tried to get across to us in those passages in Corinthians. We'll be dealing with those more, I think, in the next session, and it's important. Are there any other comments along these lines as far as the liberty in the Spirit?

PASTOR LAROCK: One other thought is how in the New Covenant the law is written on our hearts. He said "I would write the laws on your hearts and in your minds," so it's not something it's engraved in stones that we have to check. "Okay, I can't do that, and I need to do that," it's our hearts. In the New Covenant, our hearts are to do that. We want to do the law of God. It's not something that we feel is grievous, or we have to do this, or we can't do this, but the freedom that we have is the joy of wanting to do the will of God and wanting to do what's right. That's real liberty, to want to do the right thing, to have a heart to do it. What a gift that is! I want to do the right thing. I want to please God. I want to do what He wants me to do. I want to hear "Well done." I want to stand before Him one day and be confident in the righteousness that He's given me and know that my life has brought glory to Him. I want to do that. I didn't used to want to do that. He changed my heart. He wrote His Word upon my heart, so I see the liberty in that, that we've been freed from having to comply with that attitude of "I have to do this or I can't do this," to "I'm free now." I want to do what God wants me to do. That's a great joy.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, it is. That's the maturity of relationship that we're looking for. We were talking in the back a little bit about some of the practical things of coming to grips with our own hearts and really realizing who we are. "That's me," and how we were saying this morning how we can lie to ourselves and saying, "Well, that's not what I really want, and that's not what my real treasures are," and yet, it's in such abundance. We just need to come to grips to say, "Yeah, that's what it is, but I don't want it to be that." Then we can begin to make the practical steps of, "Okay, how can I," whatever it is that I find myself in bondage to, the carnal mind, whatever is there that I'm in bondage to, puttering around the house, golf, watching movies, slothfulness, go on and on. You can choose anything you want. I don't want to be that anymore. I choose, as we said this morning, to yield my members as instruments to righteousness. How do we now, practically, pull that off? Well, first thing you do is be followers of those who through faith and patience are inheriting the promises. Who are you hanging with? Who are you emulating? Make a decision! You might need new friends. You may need a change of environment, of where you are if you're ever going to get out of the bondage that you're in, the rut that you're in. You begin to say, "Okay, I'm going to start following those people. I'm going to see what they did to get where they are, and I want to be with them. I just want to be there, and I want to hear, and I want to watch."

I've shared many times, as a young man, some of these men of God.--I just--when they stopped, I ran into them. I wanted to be like them. These are people that knew God. My treasure had changed. The course that I was on of self-service and sports and all that other stuff, when I was regenerated, it all changed. Old things had passed; all things became new. The natural sin in my members was still there, but I had a new pursuit. Just as I had pursued the athletics, I pursued the Kingdom of God. I wanted to be excellent in the Kingdom. I wanted to do the best I could do for God, so I started hanging out with these folks, and went back and watched contemporaries, people that were there that I could see, flesh and blood. Then I began to read, of course, just devouring the Scriptures and getting to know the men of God in the Scriptures and trying to figure out what made Paul tick and what made Peter tick. How were they like me? Man, they're men of like passions, yet God used them mightily, so I don't have to be--I'm going to mess up. I'm not perfect, but God can use me as I am if I'll present myself to Him. I can at some moments be too prideful like Paul, and I can be too impetuous like Peter; and I can deny Him(and I can, you know!), but it's He that works in me to will and to do His good pleasure. Without Him I can do nothing. You begin to see what's available. For some of us here, do you want to be a champion for God? Are you more impressed with Paul and Peter than you are with all these personalities of our day? We're lying to ourselves if we're more infatuated with all the secular things than we are the eternal things.

Tragically, I think as you look at different ones, some of us here, if you had an opportunity to sit down with Donald Trump or Jesus, you'd choose Trump. If some of you had a chance to sit down with Michael Jordan instead of Jesus, you'd choose Michael Jordan. "No, I wouldn't." Well, I mean, you have that opportunity every day. You can either sit down with Jesus, or you can follow the same gods that these other guys that I mentioned are: the finance, the power, the glitz, the jets, the sports, because where your treasure is, is where your heart is. Once we can come to grips with that, and say, "Here's where I am, but I don't want to be here anymore; how do I fix it?" You start following those who through faith and patience are inheriting the promises. You start making decisions to deny yourself and serve other people. You start making decisions to forego this activity and spend a little bit of time in the Word and prayer that you hadn't spent before. You're the one that speaks up in the group and says, "No, let's not watch the movie. We've watched one every Friday night for the last six months, why don't we do this tonight? Why don't we go minister to this person that's just barely hanging on, share the Gospel down here, go up and pray at church?" "Well, it's not even prayer night." Well, dear Lord, I mean, surely we shouldn't show up and pray on a night that's not prayer night; this is movie night! To begin to say practically, I'm yielding my members now to serve in the Kingdom, to be poured out for the Kingdom. I'm striving toward the prize, the high calling of God that's in Christ Jesus. I choose to fully empty myself in the pursuit of God. I'm going to pursue a new relationship. I'm going to be better Christian and improve my Christian life next year by as much as I improve my basketball game, my bank account. My temple is going to look better next year by the same degree that I remodeled my house. My life is going to shine just like the new wheels on my car. You start making those decisions, and we all know the Biblical principles, if we're going to be a master in this, then its moderation here, temperate in these things.

Those begin to be the very basics, and you go to people, and you say, "Can I follow you around? Can you show me how to do this? I want to grow spiritually, how can I do this? Is there anything I can do around here to help?" I shared my testimony when I first got saved. I went to the women's meeting. I did. I was a junior in college attending the women's meeting. Well, how come? They were teaching the Word of God! I didn't know anything about the Word; I wanted to learn more. Those old ladies down there, they're making quilts. That's one thing they did. They always got together and make quilts for the missionaries, so I learned how to sew quilts. I learned to talk old lady talk. Some of these old ladies were cool you know, Grandma Carter and some of them, and would just listen and learn. I went up to the church, and I volunteered. (I said, "I'd like to be Pastor.") I went up there said, "Is there anything I can do?" They said, "Well, yeah." This is Fresno; it's one hundred eight degrees outside. They say, "Yeah, we're putting this insulation in the fellowship hall; would you like to crawl in the attic with all this insulation?" It was only like a hundred fifty degrees in there. "Yeah, praise God." Go put insulation in the attic. After I got done with that, they promoted me; I got to clean the toilets. I got to go do that for a while. I began to learn, and all of a sudden, I began to study and learn the Word. I learned the Word, and I began to know more Word than kids that had been raised in the church. Then I started teaching the college Sunday school class, and I'd only been saved like seven months, and I was teacher.

What do you want to do for the Kingdom? Who do you want to yield your members to? I'd yielded them to play football. I'd poured out in that, but my god changed! If we don't realize that, we're just lying to ourselves; and everything else isn't going to work until we figure out who we are and what manner of man we are and why we're doing what we're doing. I'd like to say that all of my motives have been pure at all times, but they haven't been. When they haven't been I've realized it and changed and been amendable. These are exciting things that are going on, ready to hear what God says to do next.

Practically, what do you do? You begin to do the opposite of what you were doing before. You stop serving yourself. You stop looking for pizza and start looking for daily bread. Stop looking for play time and find a way that you can serve others and die to yourself. The principle, the law, that we talked about today, to he that has shall more be given. That's a spiritual principle in the Kingdom, the one that has, God will give you more; and those that don't give a rip about what God's given you, He'll take what you did have and give it to somebody else and give you pizza.

Every time you make a choice for yourself, something that's profitable for the Kingdom is going to be taken from you and given to somebody that will use it properly. Those are laws that begin to practically work in our walk in the Spirit, practical ways. Find people that you can serve. We're doing--we're not doing badly, as I said this morning--but the war that we're in is going to intensify. What are you doing to get ready? You know its coming. You know trials are coming, persecution's coming. You know that in the last days false teachers, false prophets are arising. People are being deceived en masse. What makes you and me safe from that? What is it that's going to keep you from being one of the deceived ones? What is it that's going to cause you--and this is something that we're living through right now that's real to myself, very real to myself and to many of you that I've, you know, that are praying for Rob and the family--but what is it that keeps you?

Are you going to be one of them that can open this Bible, take a look right here, read (Ephesians 5) verse 22, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing [that doesn't seem unreasonable to them]." Now, how do you read that into there? In the context, as I said, in the context of true biblical hermeneutics, as you look at the context of this passage, where he talks about the great mystery down in verse 32. ". . I speak concerning Christ and the church." To interpret that, that way, you have to interpret it this way: "The bride of Christ, the church, is to do everything Jesus tells them that they consider reasonable. I make my perception of what is reasonable the authority here, not Jesus, not His divine order." I'm just saying all that to say this: here's someone who would have told you, six months earlier would have fought you to the death over this translation that we hold to, and six months later totally sees it another way. How do you get there? Are you safe? Now, no one can pluck us from His hand, so there were decisions made to apostatize. What causes that in a person? How do you get there? One wrong decision at a time, choosing self over others, habitually, roots of bitterness, failure to obey the Word of God. That's all we're trying to do in this teaching is to say, the more you try to defend your liberty to be carnal, the greater sign that death is already working in your members. It's evident. To the degree that you can see yourself and say, "In me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing," you begin to stay in a position to where now I'm teachable. The Spirit can lead me into truth. Let God be true; every man a liar, and there is a safety that's available to us. Do you guys have any other comments, since there are no questions?

Father, we thank you for your love and for the work that's manifesting in each of our lives. I just ask you to make us aware of the hour that we're in, to see the power of these seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. What are we being seduced by? Mingled seed, the lie of mingled seed, being "acceptable to God" when the Word has so clearly defined, you're for me; you're against me. You love me; you hate me. As your children, we ask you, lead us into truth; we don't know how to go out or to come in. I don't have this thing called life figured out. I don't know what to do, but your Spirit dwells within me to lead me into all truth. Your Word is a lamp unto my feet; there is no occasion of stumbling when I bring everything to the light. I no longer have a heart of stone but of flesh, and your Word is written upon it. I know what to do, and I choose to do it. I choose to surround myself with those that are doing it. I choose to honor you instead of myself if you'll give me the strength, by your grace, to do it, Father. Now, you are at work within us to will and to do your good pleasure and for that, we just say, thank you. Be glorified in our lives, in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Before you go, turn to somebody next to you and say, "He's working in us." Praise God. Go in peace; God's love go with you.

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