Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Panel Discussion

I'm going to ask the guys to come on up and join me here. I didn't really know we were going to take this time and have it as a panel time together, but we are going to be leaving here real soon, next week heading out West for our annual trip to Tahoe, and so I thought we'd go ahead and wind these things down. A couple of the subject matters--what we'll be looking at tonight was the time that we've spent on witnessing, on the outreach, what Father has called us to do here in this fellowship, and then we'll be talking about the humility aspect that we've been studying. I think it's probably one of the important studies that we've done in a long time.

The good time that Father is really manifesting in out midst--and I say a good time--as I was in prayer one of the things that came to me, a thought that came to me just the other night as I was praying, meditating on humility, and I thought what a great gift that really only God can give, to supernaturally return us to innocence. Think about that: the innocence of a child. God has the capacity to bring us back to that innocence that we were trying to relate this morning.

Greer said she was--when I started this morning, she said she had this thing that just kind of flashed through her mind. Her mind doesn't go back as far as Lily Tomlin. How many of you remember Lily Tomlin sitting up in that chair as a little kid or a couple of others that did it? She said at first her mind kind of flashed back to that; she said it was interesting. And then just beginning to listen to what was being said, the biblical truths in that little rendering in the last couple of minutes of this morning can absolutely set you free if you grab a hold of what was being said to us. But that innocence of a little child, the absolute trust, no guile, no agendas that are there--we know that there are times that kids, in their selfishness, they get these things that they're trying to get their will, but we're talking about the normal everyday existence without the pressure of responsibilities, of reputation, of all of these things--you're just out living and having a good time. That's what Father wants for us, if we can begin to humble ourselves, casting our care on Him, as we saw in 1 Peter 5 this morning, because He cares for us, praise God. That's where it all really begins.

So as we get ready tonight, we'll just talk about that a little bit, but what stuck out to you guys so far in the teachings on humility? We talked about the tendency of so many people, that in due time God will exalt you, and we talked about that humbling ourselves with the purpose of exaltation--"It's about time people recognized my worth. It's about time God finally brought the promise of His Word into my life to correlate with my great sacrifice of lowering myself." We saw that Jesus said, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart . . . " (Matthew 11:29). We were talking about not just meek actions, not just humble behavior, but a humble heart. A real awareness of what God has done for us, the gift that He has given us, calling us sons of God; the real awareness of what our worth without Him is. Meek and lowly in heart.

"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me . . . " What is that yoke all about? It's an implement of labor isn't it? "Take my yoke upon you . . . " What was the yoke that Jesus had? "I've not come to do My will but [say it] the will of He that sent me. I have meat to eat that you know not of, to do the will of My Father, to finish the work. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; I'm meek and I'm lowly in heart. I'm not here to speak My Words but Father's Words. I'm here to do the will of the Father. That's My meat; that's My bread--that's why I live." That's humility. That's the yoke that we're bearing every day; that's what we're called to do.

So we're living in a society where it's all about image and reputation and position and power, and it always has been, but it's just being vaunted so freely in our society. And we're a people that can get ahead by serving. How? How can you by not making your own way? Because God will make a way where there's no way. Amen? See, I believe that. I don't believe we have to fight for position, for prominence. These things are real, and God will confirm His Word, the Scripture says, with signs following.

So let's talk about the practical aspects of humility and how it relates to the edifying of the body, as we were sharing this morning. Who wants to go first? Any of you guys have something that stood out to you through the first part of this? Jeff, did you say--

PASTOR HEGLUND: Yes, I know for me there were so many things that stood out. I guess I'll go back to right before you started on humility; you were talking about Jehoiada and Joash. I speak to the young people often just about the need to be humble and stay humble, and of course that story is just a great illustration of how we're not who we think we are. And Joash ended up--you know, he was doing great as long as his counselor was alive, but then Jehoiada died and he ended up killing Jehoiada's son. Obviously, he should have been grateful and thankful and humble, and he wasn't. He thought he did it, is what you were saying. He thought he was responsible, [that] he was somehow great, and he blew it. And it's not how you start; it's how you finish.

Throughout that, and in the humility teaching, you often challenged the young people: if you could just grab a hold of this and if you'll listen, one day you'll be so thankful. Those words just kind of ring in my ears as I've had opportunity to talk to the kids, because I know that's who I was, that's who I still am. Just to see--I have my share of scars, but not that many, because when I was here--and you really have to take it by faith, because everything in you is screaming [that] something else is worthwhile. I guess what I'm talking about is being in Discipleship Training and being a young person and thinking you know better and what feels good--"You should be able to have a girlfriend. What's the big deal?" and "I don't understand this about secular music" and "Why can't we do this and that? What's with all the rules?"--and yet just the grace of God being able to impart--and not just me; there are so many. It's a blessing to watch many here, many that are choosing it now. It's a very exciting thing. But just the grace of God that gives you the ability to look at a man like yourself, or these men up here, or so many of you even out there who are saying, "Look, I lived this, the worldly part of it. I went out and experienced all these things that you think you need to have, and there's nothing in it."

Another thing that just flashed through my mind as you were doing the teaching on humility and Jehoiada and those things is just how you said that you'd pay to do this, to stand here and lead God's people, because it's what God asked you to do. I know just from watching you, you wouldn't pay to do it in the natural, but just to see that's the humility--"I don't want to do anything else, because this is life and it's God's presence."

I guess that's just been so heavy on my heart, in seeing, because I know the privilege. Now it's twenty years later since I showed up here, coming to Discipleship Training, and again, I've made my mistakes and had my meetings with the pastors, and told the kids, "You're a hard knucklehead." But for the greatest part of it, you chose. You chose to have faith and humble yourself, and man, I'm just so blessed! I'm still learning how blessed I am every day to be able to work with some of the people I get to work with. When I say that, I mean alongside, like you guys for sure, who were my teachers. Even people who just come up here and help and volunteer and could be doing all kinds of things. Just as you were talking about, humility is subjecting yourself to the will of God and putting yourself under, choosing to do with less. I see so many people, and it stands out to me, who have time and money and could do all kinds of things, go here and go there, and yet I don't see them doing it. They're here because they're humbling themselves. It's like you said, it's not their hobby; it's that they know they've been called for a purpose. They're choosing the better part, and they're reaping the benefits. I could go on and on, just in my own life, thinking of, first of all, I know I deserve Hell, but just seeing the relationships that I have. You know, that's not me; that's because I've got all these Jehoiadas.

I was telling somebody the other day, I can't remember who it was--I was like, I'm praying for Pastor Scott that he'll just live to be a hundred and thirty or something, because I'd just as soon go before him. I'm not interested in that kind of life. I know God's grace is there and He could raise somebody else up, and you've said that a thousand times, but I'm just so thankful that I don't have to do it on my own. I'm very conscious of entering into other people's labors and the privilege that it is. I get selfish and I get self-pitiful sometimes, but just thinking, when you look around, you can't help but get emotional, start crying. I could do it right now, because of what God has done, and it's only by the grace--Why me? Why do I--you look at some here that have left recently, some of the kids. And I know I haven't finished the race--it's not how you start; it's how you finish--but I just think, Why? If they could just get a glimpse of what they're giving up. And I've heard people say it just like I'm saying it right now, and know I've got to stay humble; I've got to keep myself humble.

Just a powerful teaching; so many different principles. I'm just very conscious of the privilege that when you do humble yourself, what a great life we have, what a privilege to serve, and you sure would pay. Not that you don't get pitiful sometimes, but you're miserable when you're not humble. There's always something else you think you should have. Those were some of the things.

PASTOR SCOTT: Steve, you or Chuck have anything?

PASTOR LAROCK: A couple of practical things. When you were talking about false humility and when we get complimented sometimes and how sometimes we're uncomfortable when we're complimented--"Ah, you know"--sometimes we try to respond in a humble way. We try to be outwardly humble, but we really believe that we did something; we just want to be humble about it. But when we really believe that God did it and not us, then there's a liberty, like you were saying this morning, to just say, "Praise God! That's exciting!" You're just as excited about God doing something through you as if the Lord used Jeff or the Lord used you or the Lord used Steve, because you really believe it wasn't you. You really believe that was God, that was the grace of God. "Yes, praise God! That's exciting! God used me. That's great! Thanks for sharing that with me."

When we're humble we really believe that. We don't try to act humble; we don't try to deflect glory to God--"Yes, I did this, but I just want to give God the glory for what I did."--it's [that] we recognize that God really did it through us by His grace. That's just a great place of peace and joy when we walk in that, because we can really rejoice in God's work. "Look what God did! Wow, that's neat! Look what God did! That's cool!" He used me; He used you. When you're there in that place of humility, and we all experience it to greater degrees at times than we do at others, but there's a real liberty to rejoice in what other people did just as well. You know, you're not like, "Well, I wish that would have been me that did that. I wish I could have gotten credit and the glory for that. I wish I could have gotten the attention that that person is getting."

There's real peace and real liberty to realize that God did that, and you're not thinking about yourself, which is so destructive when we're so absorbed with ourselves and credit or glory that we did or didn't get. But when we can say, "Look what God did! Look how He used that person. That's cool! They led someone to the Lord. They preached a good message. They touched somebody in their neighborhood. They laid hands on somebody, and they got healed," there's a liberty from the focus on self--"I wish that would have been me. I wish I could have gotten the credit for that." Just being able to rejoice that God did it. Being humble is really just--I think it's really being able to see things clearly, to see things the way they actually are, because we really are nothing. We're less than nothing, and to be able to have the grace of God to be able to see that is a gift, and to be able to walk in it requires His daily grace.

It is a place of joy, and as you finished up this morning talking about how God just wants us to be humble and He wants to liberate us from all those fears that we have when we don't humbly trust Him with things and feel like, "Well, if I'm really humble and just let the Lord take care of this, then I'm going to come up on the short end, I'm going to miss out on something, I'm not going to get what others have gotten by doing things in their own strength." God wants to liberate us from all those fears, and He wants us to be at that place of peace. I thought that was very practical the way you ended up this morning talking about how God just wants us to be able to walk in peace and not have an agenda and to be thankful for whatever it is that comes from His hand, whether it's something that we would have picked or something that we would not have picked or chosen for our lives, but to realize that His plans are perfect and to be able to rejoice in them!

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, that is just such a rest, and I know that you all are coming to understand that. The haughtiness to think we know better, that we can tell God what's best for us, and we don't know how to go out or come in. We don't have a clue what's going on in our lives!

Part of the temptation and one of the powers that we're facing today is with this information society that we're in, we seem to think that information is knowledge or wisdom or experience or in some way valuable to us and we need more and we need to inform ourselves more. And I come to be aware of [something] so now I would like to obtain that, because I didn't even know that existed, but now I want to obtain that because that'll get me this and that'll show that I am this. Many of these different things we begin to trust in instead of the wisdom of God, instead of the simplicity of the truth that our steps are ordered; that He'll withhold nothing that's good for us; that His plan for us in the end, as we saw in their temptation in the wilderness, is good for us. He intends good for me, and we still are fighting every day that accusation of the enemy: "God is holding out on you. If you don't eat of this tree right here (knowledge), you're going to come up short, I'm telling you." So we're pursuing all of that that's the original deception instead of that tree of life that's in the midst of the garden that brings peace, that brings life, that keeps us in innocence.

How much better is it than being that little rich kid we were talking about this morning at the end of service? I have everything I need when I need it. "Do you own that mansion?" "No, but Dad has me up here every day, hanging out, and the refrigerator is full." "Do you own that Rolls Royce?" "No, that's my dad's, but I go running errands for him in it, and I drive it more than he does." "Is that your Lear jet?" "No, but Dad sent me over to do this thing the other day and send this and tell this guy that the Lord Jesus died for him on the cross and that He wants to reconcile and have him come home and be a part of the family. He just kind of flew me halfway around the world just to tell that one guy that, and now I'm back." Don't own anything, but I have everything, praise God!

That's how you want to live. Those of you in the natural know that's the best way to live. It is far better to let somebody else own it, you get to use it, and they pay the taxes and have all the headaches and the upkeep. Just go hang out with the rich folks and have a good time. Use it all up, eat it, swim in it, and you don't have to pay for it, don't have to maintain it, don't have to stay up nights worrying about it. The same spirit of humility and just being able to walk in the goodness of the Lord. So these are exciting things.

Anybody here that had something that just jumped out at you in this teaching on humility that's had an effect on your life to this point. Whoever is really proud and just been healed of that and delivered in the last couple of sessions. Yes. OK, here he comes.

MAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony of a physical trial and how God worked humility in him through that.]

PASTOR SCOTT: It's an exciting thing. As you get put into a position like Mike was speaking [of], you think, What am I doing [here]? Look at the people, the condition they're in, and I'm in their number. And then just to be humbled by the goodness of God and to be where you are and to know Him as a son and to be able now to minister to these people at these junctures. These are things--in the natural, when we're able to rise up and care for ourselves in all these different ways, many people will share that as they find themselves becoming slightly more dependent, that it's a very humbling process that can then ultimately end in a dependency of faith, which is humility, which really begins to emulate more of Christlikeness and more of a true heart of appreciation and thanksgiving for all the good things that Father has done in our lives. So often we feign it--"Oh, I'm just so thankful for all that God has done for me."--and now there's a real taste of that goodness, the mercy of God, the awareness of the fact that everything we have is grace and mercy extended to us and not what we deserve. So it is a process.

Anybody else that the Lord spoke to you in this? We want to give a chance for some testimonies here and just to glorify God. We'll take that opportunity. Back here.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony of how she left the church and this area but had no peace until she came back, and how God worked humility through that.]

PASTOR SCOTT: Hallelujah! You know, there are a lot of places we all know that you can hear doctrine and the name of the Lord spoken and lifted up, and there are some good churches out there, but this choice that we're making here, those of us that are in oversight, those of you that are willing to pursue this along with us in this journey, it's about giving God His glory. It's about the obedience that we read [about] in Philippians today--Jesus, who learned obedience through that death, through that process of becoming of no reputation, laying His majesty aside to become a man and to fulfill the purpose of God and how we're to identify with that and let that mind be in us. This isn't an easy path that we're all on. We talk about a lot of emphasis in the past on holiness and righteousness, and we're a people that have emphasized over the years the integrity of the Word of God, the absolute authority and truth of the Word of God, but what it takes to imbibe all of that and embrace all of that is this great gift of humility that is being, by the mercy of God, worked in us on a daily basis as we're choosing that cross, as we're choosing to become less, as we're choosing to identify. Then God is being exalted in our midst.

We can't take any credit for anything that's being done. You just say, "Praise God! I've got more of a love for souls right now." That's the grace of God, that's the mercy of God, and it came because we're agenda-free, because we've humbled ourselves and said, "Whatever God wants to use me in, that's what I'm available for." Preferring others, seeking others' gain, as Chuck was saying earlier. You're just as excited about somebody else being used or blessed, praise God!

I was just--I don't know if it's even common knowledge so I won't use the name right now, but someone here in the fellowship who is just such a blessing to this community and such a giver, and I don't know that I've ever seen him so excited about anything in the natural, and to see Father blessing them with this and just rejoicing in that, praise God! Just like it's yours, just like it's happening to you. It's like, Praise God!--all the same excitement. That's identifying with one another and preferring one another, and it's an exciting thing.

Anybody else? We just want to give you a chance if anybody wants to share what Father has spoken. We can talk a little bit too about, if you want, anybody that has a testimony of some of the witnessing that's gone on, all of us. How many of you were able to witness to somebody this week? Let me see your hands. Praise God. Amen.

Over here. Lovenia should do OK; she's still got one good foot.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Asked for clarification on statement Pastor made: You'll never know who you are until you become less than what you think you are.]

PASTOR SCOTT: You know, as you meditate on that aspect, you know we have that natural propensity to think of ourselves more highly than we ought to think, and as Father reveals to us who we really are, how ugly we are--"In me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing" (Romans 7:18). I'm no good; there's nothing in me of worth to the Kingdom of God. Even in my regenerated state I still battle with pride and fear and ambition and lust and all of these different things, but I want to put myself off as all together and I've got this thing under control and the reputation, the image, and all of these things, and when we can put all that on the cross and die to it and say, Here's what I am, and here's where I am; I'm just like all of you--and I'm not talking about just myself as Pastor (and I try to do that), but each one of us, as we relate to the members in the body, "This is what I am, and God loves me. This is what I am, and I believe you love me and that you're here for my good." Once we come to that awareness, then He's able to work His image in us, and we become aware of who we really are and what we really are--having the mind of Christ, reflecting the glory of God in earthen vessels, and then we're able to boast in God and say, "Look what He can do through an earthen vessel," and we boast in Him.

We don't minimize where we are, what we are, what God's doing through us. We don't minimize it, and we don't overemphasize it. We're able to [say], "For me to live is Christ." That's part of the process, so we won't know who we are until we become less than what we think we are, I think was the statement, and that's through humility then; we realize that we're representing the image of Christ. That's who we really are, and that'll humble you, praise God, because then anything that happens that's good, it's not me; it's God. And we really believe that. You know, there's a phrase that you use sometimes when somebody you're playing sports [with], or whatever it might be, and somebody makes a play or whatever and we'll give them a hard time by saying, "Oh, even an old blind hog will find an acorn every once in a while." That's how we see ourselves. It's the blessing of God that you spoke a word of wisdom, that you were able to show mercy instead of selfishness. That's God working in us to will and to do His good pleasure. So that's what we're talking about.

Did you guys have any comments along those lines?

PASTOR LAROCK: Yes, Lisa and I were talking yesterday. When she was at the dentist, the dental hygienist there was telling her about this acquaintance that the dental hygienist had, who Lisa also had, and she said this woman's daughter is, I guess it's anorexia. I get anorexia and bulimia mixed up, but I think anorexia is the one.

PASTOR SCOTT: That's where they're afraid of food.

PASTOR LAROCK: That's where they make themselves vomit and stuff, right?

PASTOR SCOTT: Bulimia is the vomiting thing, and anorexia is the fear of food and these people that are all totally emaciated.

PASTOR LAROCK: I think that's what it would be then, because her daughter is a senior in high school and she's sixty-four pounds. They had to take her to the Emergency Room the day before Christmas Eve because she was so weak and dehydrated and all that. I thought that's a perfect example of deception, how you can look in the mirror and see a sixty-four pound eighteen-year-old, looking at yourself in the mirror, and think, I'm fat. But that's what they do. People tell them, "You're not fat. You're dying. You need some food; you're so skinny you're about to die," but they won't believe it. They look in the mirror and they see fat. That's deception, but if you would humble yourself and become less than what you think you are and say, "OK, I'll listen to what you say even though what I see is fat, but I trust you and I trust you and I trust you and I trust you and I trust you, and you're all saying that I'm skinny and I'm dying. I'll eat," then you begin to see.

That's what I think of with that statement that you made. When you become less than what you think you are, then you begin to come out of darkness. You come out of the deception that you have about yourself to be able to see what you really are, and then the joy that follows when you see more of what you really are and that God still loves you and people still love you, because they were seeing that before you did. Before you were willing to acknowledge it, they still saw it. But at least God did, and a lot of times other people did too, but they still loved you. That just increases our joy in God and our joy in His love through others. So I just thought that was a good illustration of what you were talking about.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, it is, praise God!

Anybody else? We'll take a few minutes here. We don't want to rob anybody out of a blessing. We've got a hand here. Anybody else? Yes, the brother back here, so let's go ahead. We can start here and work back that way.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony of how God has shown her she has not been resting in the Lord (not ceasing from her own labors).]

PASTOR SCOTT: That's what the Scripture calls us to do: to labor to enter into the rest. Now, labor is ceasing from our own works. The rest is letting Christ work in us. It's not an absence of works; it's His working through us, not us working for Him. Not us doing something and trying to attach His name to it. So we're to cease from our own labors that we can enter into that rest of God and allow His will to be done, not our will, not our agenda, not our perception.

Back here.

MAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony of a situation that involved a police officer, but the person remained humble throughout the incident and experienced the peace of God.]

PASTOR SCOTT: There's the rest that we were just talking about. The ability to not have to prove ourselves, to stand for any justice or injustice or our perspective. If it takes something this exciting to get that point across to you, then praise God! That's something that--Father can use many different things to reveal it to us. I thought he was going to break into, "I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shoot the deputy." [Pastor humorously using lyrics from song, I Shot the Sheriff.]

I think there was another hand over here. Yes.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Asked for further comment on statement Pastor made: pride is not observable by actions or possessions; it's a heart issue.]

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, probably that's one of my brain gaps as we're sharing, but what we're talking about is, as it's revealed or observable to ourselves, as God is revealing this thing to us, so often we want to judge it by the externals and the observable, and we're never going to really see ourselves, the condition. It's a heart issue; it's a revelation, an internalizing of motives, who we really are; not what we're portraying. So that's the point that I was trying to make, so I'm glad you brought that up.

Any other comments on the teaching, things that Father has spoken to you, or questions that you might have along these lines to clarify some of the things?

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony of how God revealed a haughty spirit and is working humility.]

PASTOR SCOTT: I think that we could all say Amen to that, but as it's being revealed to us, it's an interesting thing as we begin to see ourselves through certain incidents, the trials. Remember we were sharing out of the experience of the children in the wilderness. God put us here to reveal our hearts to us, to try us, that He might show us what's in our hearts to humble us. So much of what we're enduring is an ongoing process. Be more sensitive to hear, to see, what Father is speaking. What are your reactions and responses to people? When somebody questions you at work, or we talked about the different incidents--you're out on the highway. Why do you think--why do you react so vehemently when somebody does something? You know, anymore, the fact that we made it home, we should be rejoicing, praise God! It's the way people are out there.

These are some of the things, though, that I think--how many of you really, not just from your perspective, but how many of you truly believe that it's much more dangerous to drive out there now than it was five years ago? Do you know what it is? It's pride. Its self-indulgence; it's "I have a right. I'm trying to get home [Like, who isn't?]--that's my hole; that's my spot." This is the self-indulgence. I've talked about it before--this guy that almost ran into us just the other day. I'm parked at this light, and I see him coming. He's in this truck, and the guy's sitting there and he's talking on his cell phone, going through a file on his seat.

It's all a lack of humility; it's all preferring self, and it's in every area of our existence. And if we could be a people that are aware of that, and then let God begin to work His life in us. It doesn't mean that we have to suffer injustice. There may be times when you need to, but you don't always have to, because God has set authority and law in place for us. We have rights just like everybody else, and we're not talking about, "Well, you know, I'm a doormat." That's not humility. Humility is obeying the Word of God, seeking the glory of God, seeking justice, and not self-will and not vaunting self. Many times the most humble thing to do is to hold somebody accountable, the most humble thing to do is to speak the truth and bring reproof and instruction into righteousness. That's the humble thing to do, because it would be easier on me not to say anything. So we need to realize what humility is. Humility is always preferring God, preferring truth, preferring light, over our own ease and selfness and these different aspects. So that's all part of the process.

Anybody else? Yes.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony of how God is teaching her humility by helping her to trust Him to work in her grown children's lives and not try to carry their burdens herself, to cast her cares upon Him.]

PASTOR SCOTT: Amen. That's just what it's all about. That testimony is what we're talking about, that aspect of relying on God, not having to try and fix everything. We don't know how to be parents! We don't know how to fix all of these problems. We're not responsible to fix them all. We're responsible to speak the truth in love. We're responsible to love our children. We're responsible to submit to our husbands. We're responsible to love our wives. We're responsible to obey our parents. These things that are all clear aspects of obedience. Obedience is the fruit of humility: because God has worked humility, I am able to obey. I don't have to have my own way; I can do what I'm told. My husband tells me to do this; that settles it. "Well, I should have some kind of rights about how I dress. He says he likes this and that and he doesn't like that, and that's not the fashion and that's not what I prefer." What's that got to do with anything, except self-will and you know better? "You mean I've just got to do what my husband says?" Mmm, yeah. "You mean I've got to do what my parents say?" Mmm, yeah. "You mean I have to do what my Head, the Lord, says?" Yes.

This thing's really simple, and if you just do what you're told, everything's going to work out all right. I wonder what it is that doesn't like that? What is it that wants that person to "justify their position to me!" "OK, I'll do it, but you tell me why. Explain to me why. Give me your reasoning, and I will discern whether or not it's truly the will of God for my life or not." We can take it to any extreme you want or minimize it to any degree you want. The moment you move outside your role and vaunt yourself and think you know better and think you're the exception, we're back in pride; we're back in self-will. We're back into that fruit that'll bring death. "But if I do this, I'm losing control, I'm losing my rights, I'm"--dying? Taking up the cross? Yeah, and all you get out of it is Jesus and His presence and His power and His eternal purpose worked in your life, and you don't have a clue what you need and what's best for you. Oh, if we could come to believe that, it would be great wouldn't it? How many of you struggle with that a little bit? And with lying? No!

Anybody else? Yes.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Testimony about how choosing to do the opposite of what we want to do, even when we have the right to do it, works humility in us.]

PASTOR SCOTT: It does. It breaks the power of that selfness. By reason of use we have our senses exercised to discern good and evil, and it's the experience that builds that in us and breaks the power of that thing, and the choices are what it's all about. Many of us have good intentions; many of us think, "Well, I'm intending to do this; I believe in this," etc. It's doing it that evidences how much that grace is working in us, and we choose against our own natural desire. What you're saying is something I know I do quite often. There are different things that, if I'm feeling, "Well, I have a right to that or I deserve, I've done this," the moment I sense that in me--"I've worked hard; I've earned this so I should be"--then as soon as I've sensed that in me, I won't do it. If I did do it and [I'm] made aware, I'll get rid of it. I'll give it away, sell it, throw it out the window, whatever it is. I don't want any of that taking hold in my life, but it's that choosing. He made Himself of no reputation. Moses chose to be identified with.

These are the things that have to be done in our lives, so that's a good practical thing. Look for ways to prefer others. Look for ways among [us] here to build other people up and to bless and these different areas, and it'll be the working, the fruit of that humility, which makes us candidates for the presence of God. And that's exciting!

Anybody else?

PASTOR LAROCK: I had a thought to share, if there are no other hands, on what you were talking about just a moment ago. In one of Forbe's recent e-mails he was just sharing about a trial that he's going through and just sharing some personal things with Pastor. Then at the end of the e-mail he said, just to kind of summarize, he was referring to the trial [and] he said, "I have purposed to die, even if it kills me." I thought that was a really good statement, because I know Forbe was just kind of saying that tongue-in-cheek, but it reveals the way we think a lot of times, that I'm going to die, but we don't realize that dying means that you're going to be killed. In other words, you actually have to do it. You can't just say, "Well, I'm going to die to that." You actually have to do it! You have to suffer the death; you can't just say that I'm going to die to something. So I think in saying that, he was actually, there was probably some tongue-in-cheek aspect, but there was probably also some illumination of what it was going to cost him in that situation--that I'm going to die in this thing, and I realize that it's going to kill me, and I'm seeing some of the specific ways it's going to kill me. But I thought that was a very good statement.

PASTOR SCOTT: Amen. When you're dying, when it dies or you're dying, the true response to that, the true evidence of humility, is David rising up and refreshing himself under the judgment of God. The child dies--he didn't get his way; God got His and he [David] celebrated that. He didn't endure it and mope around for three more weeks in sackcloth and ashes. He died to his own will and celebrated it, refreshed himself, because God's way is always right. That's the spirit of humility. So those are all different aspects.

Anybody else? Yes.

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [A question was asked about situations where you purposely don't say much about an accomplishment of yours because you don't want to draw attention to yourself.]

PASTOR SCOTT: So much of this is, again, motive. The Scripture talks about vain glorying and trying to project ourselves as more than we really are, trying to sell ourselves, trying to make ourselves--thinking of ourselves more highly than we ought. Many times in a conversation--we talked about false humility; for instance, denying the good things that God has done. I've shared before a couple of times, you remember the testimony I've shared [about] Janet and how she was blessed--the Lord had blessed us, and she had nice things that Father had provided. And there were times where she felt, Well, maybe I shouldn't wear this, or whatever. And then she thought, Well, this is what God has blessed me with.

A false humility would deny the blessings of God. A false humility would deny the talent. If you've painted a beautiful picture and somebody says, "My, that's a beautiful picture," and you go, "Oh, that old thing," many times we're fishing for more compliments. "Oh, no, it's really good!" "Oh, well, not really." "Yes." "Oh, more. Tell me how good it is again." Or sometimes we're not fishing for more compliments, but we just don't want to bring honor to ourselves. But the fact that God has gifted us brings Him the glory, and we say, "Praise God! The Lord just gave me this ability, and I believe He inspired me, and if it's blessed you, praise God! Give the Lord the glory for that, and I'm really thankful that you appreciate it." You score twenty points or thirty points or eighty points in the basketball game, and somebody comes and says, "Oh, good game!" "Oh, no, that was nothing." Say, "Yeah! I never did that before! That's got to be God! Praise God. Thank you; I appreciate it."

Be able to realize that God is working in us, and many of these things are not boasting; it's just recognizing the gifts and the working of God. Chuck said earlier, we don't do something and try to deflect it to God. We truly recognize that it was God, and we say, "Praise God! This is Him working in me." Don't be afraid to boast in what God is doing in your life or in those around you. Let those that boast, boast in the Lord; but there's nothing wrong with boasting in the Lord.

Anybody else? Is that clear? Does that help at all? I don't know if that answered the question.

SAME WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: [Clarification of question made.]

PASTOR SCOTT: Let others praise you and not yourself--as the Proverbs speak? Yes, the key again is motive. Don't be afraid to just boast in the goodness of God! So if I'm in a conversation and there's an opportunity to share the good things that God is doing and we think that some how it'll help that person in the awareness of the goodness of God--see that's the thing. It's not just am I going to impress them with my possessions, with my gifts, but I'm just speaking matter-of-factly of the goodness of God and saying, "Man! Look what the Lord blessed me with." You're really excited about that, and it's not about the incident, the possession, or whatever, it's that God gave it to you! That's what we want to boast in; that's the excitement, and I think that's the difference.

Anybody else? We're just about out of time here, but we'll take one more if there is, and if not, we'll just shut it down.

Well, let those that boast, boast in the Lord, praise God, but let's become agenda-free. Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, Who made Himself of no reputation, humbled Himself to the obedience of the daily cross. Crucifixion of self. Glorying, purposing--for me to live is Christ.

Father, make it real, we ask. You've said we ought to clothe ourselves with humility. That means to purposely, as we were talking earlier, choose to, over our kings' robes, our thousand dollar suit, wrap that slave's apron around ourselves and go serve somebody. That's who we are, and there's nothing greater in Your Kingdom. Help us to believe that, we ask, Father, in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

Before you go, turn to somebody and say, He gives grace to the humble. Amen.

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