Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Panel Discussion

Dialogue is very important in the subject matter that we're dealing with. Already, some of the things that we've shared have been heard in a different way. We all hear with filters, based upon what we prefer, what we already believe is right, what place we're in spiritually to have ears to hear. We all hear differently. We want to be sure that we're hearing what is being said. We want to make sure that we're hearing what the Spirit of God is saying to us. This is a very important subject in the hour we're living in. We'll quote again the basic premise that we're working off. "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone" (Genesis 2:18). Amen? We all understand that's a biblical principal. We spent a long time this morning (and I'm not going to spend time reiterating), looking at the root of Western civilization. The thought that came from Aristotle and the other philosophers in Greece that had to do with independence, that had to do with democratic thought processes, that had to do with what we would today label as secular humanism, and that's where its origin is. We were contrasting that with biblical truth, and biblical wisdom and God's preference.

We live in a society today where, through the evolution of things, people in our day, in our culture, are getting married later and later and later in life, so we have had some who were concerned that their children were interested in getting married at a young age. We look around us, and it does concern us when some of these-I used a phrase in the back. It's not real kind, but I'll use it anyway because I'm not talking about Christians. I would be concerned if I was a parent, and my child was an eighteen-year-old video game idiot, and that's all they know-immature with no experience. The fact of the matter is, if that's where these people's children are, they made them that way. We have to look and say, is that where our young people are? I say no. Our kids are being taught in many different ways. They need to mature, I believe, even more, but in many ways, we're teaching our children responsibility. We're teaching them godly character, etc. The reason that we find people marrying later and later in our current culture is because of personal lust, careers, materialism, and immorality. Why marry when you can sleep around and try out twenty or thirty, looking for the right one?

We have this thought process that contrasts with the biblical principles that we've been talking about. Don't give place to normative thought process, to the secular humanistic perspective that is the fruit of Western civilization. We can't think that way. As believers, we have to step back and say, "Okay, what do we really believe?" How are we going to practically apply this in our lives and in the lives of our children as we continue to prepare a godly seed to finish this race that we're in? Jesus is coming back soon. The spirit of antichrist is already raging in our midst. Men, godliness is under attack-calling good evil and evil good-as the prophet said would take place. Iniquity is abounding. The love of many is waxing cold.

In the midst of all of this, we're raising up an army. We're raising people that are able to stand. Two are better than one. If it's not good for man to be alone, then I have a question for some of you older young adults. Why are you alone? Scripturally, Paul speaks of the better single life. It's better to be single, if you can, Paul says. It's a gift, and it's unique. It is the exception; it's not the rule. You'll know if you have that gift by the fact that you are absolutely one hundred percent fulfilled and your life is being poured out one hundred percent into serving everybody around you and you are not running around and partying, and all of the hang-outs, or whatever. Your life is given for the ministry. That's what Paul said. The gift is given to those that are given to the ministry. If it's not, then you have to ask yourself that question, "Why am I, then, alone, when God said it's not good for man to be alone?" Have we been affected by our society?

We'll talk to the younger young adults in just a moment, but I'm talking to some of you older young adults, and I won't put a cap on young. If you want to put yourself in there, go for it, praise God. You single folks, why are you alone? Well, in our society, we talked about some of the different reasons. I personally believe that you are the generation that's been more greatly affected by Hollywood, secular thought process, the perversion in your minds of what love is, what marriage is. I believe the greatest reason is, as I shared with the guys in the back, the greatest reason is that you have not sat down and dealt with reality and the truth of who you are. Frankly, many of you just think too highly of yourselves, and you're not going to settle. The fact is, whoever gets you is probably settling. We don't like that thought, do we?

It's all a gift; it's all grace. We're all unprofitable servants. There's nothing special about any of us. We need to be thankful for God working in our lives and fulfilling His eternal purpose by giving us a life's mate and helping us to help somebody else make it to heaven. Do you know that's what marriage is all about? Marriage is all about helping someone else get to heaven, fulfilling one another, being a helpmeet, being an agent that brings the washing with the water of the Word, as husbands cleanse their wives with the Word and give priestly advice, direction, and counsel. It's just helping somebody else get to heaven. Marriage is about godly seed, and we're not talking about Catholicism and Mormonism where we're to see how many kids we're to have and try to take over the world by sheer numbers. It's for the purpose of raising up another generation of believers. Are you doing your part? Or are you too special to contribute that because you haven't met Prince Charming? Nobody has met my top ten list, etc. Those are real questions we have to ask. I think that's something that we would want to address as we go on in the study.

We're going to give an opportunity for you to ask some questions on what we've taught thus far. I wanted to bring that up because I think, in our dialogue, that becomes a very important issue. One other thing I'd really like to suggest is this-so many times questions are answers. The people that need to be asking the questions aren't asking the questions in many instances. If you're not secure enough to be able to ask them outright, put them in writing like some of these that we have, and we'll address them. Make sure you get your questions asked, though. I think it's very important. As I look at these questions again, very quickly, any comments so far in where we've been? Anything that we've discussed in the back before we started, and then we'll give an opportunity to see if there are any questions on the floor, and we'll go to these.

PASTOR LAROCK: I think what you talked about yesterday in the men's meeting is very important. A major emphasis was to not have an agenda, either as a person that's looking for a spouse or as a parent. Do not have your own set agenda and your own set plan as far as this person, these qualifications, as Pastor referred to the "top ten" list. Also, as a parent, just thinking, "Well, I want there to be such and such an income that the two have together and for them to be able to afford a place in this neighborhood, for at least one of them to have finished their degree"-things like that. You can have those kinds of things as a goal or as the Proverbs principle, "A man's heart deviseth his way..." (Proverbs 16:9). If you feel that is the wisdom of God to pursue these kinds of things as you're developing, helping, your young people to mature and be responsible, to get a degree, and those kind of things. Always, always, as Pastor has taught in the recent teaching on guidance, be amenable to the Lord's will, to the Lord directing your steps, and always be willing to change if that's what His purposes prove to be. To where you're not set in stone that they need to have their four-year degree or they need to have a job making this much money. All those things come from the natural mind. As parents, we set those things as goals because we want our children to have a certain lifestyle, or we want them to have a life that's free of certain problems. We set up these criteria that have to be met. This will make sure that this problem probably isn't faced and you can eliminate a lot of these different things. There definitely can be a lot of wisdom in looking at those things and considering them, but the point is, you can't be rigid to the place where, if steps seem to be ordered, and God is opening the door for other things, that you just say, "No, I already said. Twenty years ago, my wife and I talked about it. We said this is the way it's going to be. We set that course; it's not changing." We can't be that way in any area of our lives unless it's clearly spelled out in the Word of God. Those things we don't budge on. In other things, we have to be amenable to the directing of God and what it is that God is doing and have that sensitivity. I think that, as a parent now, if your young people see that you're that way, you're modeling that for them. If you tell them, "We're not going to allow you to get married because you haven't gotten your four-year degree or you don't have such and such an income," where is that in the Bible? What are we modeling for our children? It should be, "This is kind of what we're looking at, but if God has something else, that's what we're going to do." I just think that's a very important part of it.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, it is vitally important to really find the mind of God and the will of God. I think it's important, too, as we've shared over and over in the years. Again, Western thought won't let us think this way. Western thought thinks, "Us four and no more, mine." Biblical truth is community, the body of Christ, the nation of Israel in their day, the covenant people. What was good, all of the laws, as we've taught in the past, were to protect the community, the covenant people. That's where the Ten Commandments came in. That's where all the Levitical ordinances came from to make it safe and good for everybody. As we sit here and approach these things, let's take this scenario that, Chuck, you were just talking about.

Here I am as a parent, and I said, "My kid is finishing college, and that's the way it's going to be." Let's say I happen to have a daughter. "She's going to finish school, and she's going to wear power suits and she's going to have a career to fall back on. That's the way that is." As a community, we really emphasize other than that. We believe that the women are to be keepers of the home, to love their husbands, to love their children. We believe in sowing into the community and other children in our midst. As we begin to look at many of these different things, let's think beyond ourselves. Here I am a father, and I have these daughters or daughter. I have one, so I'll say daughter. It's interesting. This young fellow comes, and he's interested in her. Everything about this young fellow is right, character, whatever. He's a couple years older than my daughter, and he comes to me and says, "I believe God said it's time for me to get married. I want a wife, and I want to begin to be fulfilled in this way." The only thing that I can see wrong here is that my daughter hasn't finished my agenda yet. I say, "No, you're going to have to wait for my agenda to be fulfilled." Now, let's take this young man, and don't mistake what I'm going to say here. I'm not talking about a hormonal-crazed maniac, but the Bible says, "for it is better to marry than to burn" (1 Corinthians 7:9). Marriage allows that part of our physical being to be fulfilled. Marriage does not solve lust problems. Getting married won't take care of lust, but getting married does fulfill a natural desire and a part of our lives. It keeps other temptations and failures in a place where there can be light, to where someone helps me with it, where there's an intimacy, a fulfillment, teamwork in dealing with these different areas. To make this as succinct as I can here, I'll say it this way. My planned agenda could now contribute to temptation and danger to another young man in our community that could actually be kept safe, if in fact, he did marry at this time in his life. Because I have to have my own personal agenda, I'm actually harming someone in our midst by trying to hold to my course and not thinking about another's good. What's good for this young man? He is not some stranger. He was raised up here in the community. I know this kid. He's a man of God. What can I do to assist him? Because marriage is about helping somebody get to heaven. Two are better than one. Those are things that we have to begin to entertain in our thought processes.

That has to do, again, with some of our younger young adults. I'm really concerned with some of you old fogies, and why you're still out there. I was sharing with someone today. It's really funny. This burden-as I've taught these things over the years, I have nothing to gain from all this. I'm married. My kids are married. I don't have anything-there's no reason for me to try to influence you other than try to bring the truth to you and try to protect you and see your lives fulfilled and to bring you some biblical principles. When I ask these questions, and you all have known me long enough, I'm very up front. I'm very frank. I think some of you are really missing God because of your own pride, prejudice, and ignorance. I'd like to see the best for you, so that's part of what we're trying to do. Any questions on the subject to this point? We'll answer a couple of questions on the floor. I have about twelve here in writing that we can address. I'm sure they won't all be tonight. One over here, and then we have one in the back. Does anybody else have a question, so we don't run him all over the place? Here's one up here.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: It's more of a thank you to you, Pastor. I was a member here back in the early eighties, and I was single. I forget the teaching, but you made a statement that stuck with me through my whole adult life. It made it much easier to ask someone to marry me. The statement that you made was basically, that for me to find a mate, it's not about whether we were compatible but whether we both would be committed to doing the Word of God. That helped me so much. She is a blessing, she has been, but she was not my list. She just wasn't, but she's much better.

PASTOR SCOTT: She's way too good for you. We know that.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: I just wanted to say thank you for that.

PASTOR SCOTT: Praise God. Amen. What [he was] is saying here is so important. I've used a lot of words, more than I do, to try to fluff things out because I know how easy it is to confuse some of what we're saying. I want to put succinctly again the statement that I've made many times. The Bible teaches clearly that two people who are born-again, spirit-filled, that make a covenant to God, that are joined together will have a successful, happy, supernatural marriage. When you take someone in covenant to be your life's mate, and you try with everything in you to out-give them, out-love them, bless them, edify them, and they return the same, what do you want? There's nothing better. That's what it's all about. The only thing that most of you need to do is destroy Hollywood and Western thought in your thinking. That is what has you in bondage, and that's not what the Bible teaches. I'll say it again in a very succinct way. Western civilization says to fall in lust with somebody and, hopefully, it will turn out to be love. The Bible teaches to make a covenant with somebody, and you will supernaturally by God be given the grace to love that person that you've made covenant with. Love will follow commitment, covenant choice, but love doesn't always follow lust, feelings, infatuations, false hopes and dreams. If you don't believe it, just look at the divorce rate. That's where we are in reality. Find somebody who loves Jesus, who's full of the Spirit, that has the fruit of the spirit in their life, and then try to become more spiritual than they are and hook up with them, and then you'll be in good shape. That's what it's all about. Realize that you're probably getting the best end of the deal. If you'll approach it that way, you'll be safe.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Is it wrong to want to get married? I hear people say "I don't want to get married, or it's just not even on my mind, or I'm just not ready." Obviously, we want to cast our cares upon the Lord and be anxious for nothing, but is the ultimate end of that trust supposed to be not wanting to marry?

PASTOR SCOTT: Say that the ultimate trust in God is not wanting to get married. Is that what you're trying to say?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Yes, is the ultimate end of that trust that you're supposed to put in God not wanting to get married?

PASTOR SCOTT: So, the casting of your care on God. I've cast it on God, and, therefore, I don't want to get married. Right? Is that super-spiritual? I just cast this over on God and I have no desire. You're probably lying to yourself. No desire to get married is not the will of God. It's not good for man to be alone. The desire to get married is natural. It is God's purpose for the great majority of us. To try to just pretend that it's not isn't spiritual. It's not noble. It can lend itself to the deception of not knowing your own heart. Those that would say, "I'm not interested in getting married" are very likely speaking the truth some in many ways. What they're saying is, "I'm not interested in getting married because I want to go to the beach and play, and I want to run here and play. I want to go watch R-rated movies that will fulfill my this. I want to have my life, and I'm not going to give my life over to somebody else. I want to keep it to myself." We have to-and I'm painting the negative side of that-but we have to stop and say, "Is my not wanting to get married selfishness?" Is that what's behind it? If my not wanting to get married-not wanting to get married is contrary to God's purpose and plan. If what you're saying is, "I'd really like to get married right now, but I'm just not sure about my character and my readiness for marriage." That's a whole other ballgame. I think we need to look at that. Some of us, I think, are afraid because we don't know if we're ready. "I don't know if I'm ready to get married." If you wait to be ready, you never will be. These are some of the things that I think that we also have to address, but I hope that answers it. To want to get married is very normal. It is very right. To say that, or to think, "I'm very spiritual because I've so cast this on God that I don't even think about it. It doesn't concern me." That can happen, but I'm more concerned that somebody is actually not being truthful with themselves. To approach it from a mature Christian perspective would be "I want to get married." "Oh, I don't want to get married. I'm not interested. I'm not even thinking about it. That's spiritual." That's spooky supernatural. No, maturity is "I want to get married, but I want to make sure I can be the best spouse I can be in this thing." God is just not going to drop somebody on you out of heaven any more than you're going to get rich that way. Do you know who you're going to marry? The one you choose to marry. That's who you're going to marry. You say, "But don't they have to agree?" Yeah, but I'm just basically saying when you look around and use the criteria that we gave this morning, the fruit of the spirit, someone who's obedient to God, someone who loves the Lord and who's pouring their life out for the kingdom, and you look at that person and say, "Who is that person that's pursuing the way that I'm pursuing, that has a heart for God? I want to be with them. I want to work with them. I want to be a part of their life and receive ministry from them and be able to give ministry to them." If I see somebody like that, and I'm you, I'm going for it, man! A lot of us are just afraid of rejection. If I'm a young man of your character... If I'm Sweet Thing and a young man of your character and the character of many of these other young men were to come up and ask me to marry him, I'll marry him."

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Thank you, Pastor.

PASTOR SCOTT: I'll marry you for a lot of reasons. I'll marry you because of the fruit in your life. I'll marry you because of your pursuit of God. I'll marry you because you're a young man that listens to your dad's advice and has a relationship with him, and my dad who's going to give me in marriage to you has to consider that and say, "You know what? My kids might be a little young, or whatever." You're not too young if you're not independent and rebellious. You're not too young when you ask your dad for advice and take it. You're not too young when you draw from their experience to gain your own experience. That's what makes our kids different from the world in many ways. Because they receive counsel, because they're not rebellious, because they're able to get experience through our experience by following our counsel. Those are some of the things. Now, this is talking to the young people.

I'm still after you old guys tonight, so don't get too distracted by young guys like this. Don't mistake what I'm saying either. I'm not saying, "Okay, these kids graduated high school, they're eighteen, they ought to get married off." I'm not saying that either. What I am saying is we can't put this thing into a box and have preconceived notions of what is going to be or not be in our kids' lives, because we don't know that. We don't even know what's going to happen tomorrow. How ready are you for the will of God in your life and in your children's lives? You older singles, are you ready? Dear Lord, you ought to be ready to burn that list by now. Did you put it on asbestos? These are some of the things. I am married though, and I'm going to stay faithful to my covenant. Did that answer the question?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Yeah, it really does. Thank you.

PASTOR HEGLUND: I just have one comment that ties in with guidance, when you were teaching how the Lord guides us through our heart. "A man's heart deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps" (Proverbs 16:9). Like the question Josh was asking-sometimes we think because we want something, it's wrong or it's our flesh, and it's bad. As long as we're open, especially as you've counseled so much through our fathers, (This man is obvious a person who operates that way) to have the Lord direct your steps. There are very clear ways-we know we're redirected-but He puts things in our heart. It's not wrong that we're attracted to somebody, and it's not just our flesh that causes us to be attracted to people. We know what lust is, most of the time, but sometimes God is drawing us together; and it's by what He puts in our hearts. As long as we are open to the counsel of having our steps ordered, and we're looking for those things and the principle that you've always taught of being in the way. The one thing I noticed especially around here, the people who get great husbands and wives, spouses, are the ones that are clearly in pursuit of God. That's what you hear from everyone. You especially hear it from the women. They're just looking, scanning, who's godly. Who is making decisions to serve against their flesh? Who's dying to themselves? Because they know that's who is going to die for them and vice versa. That's just one thing that stood out to me.

PASTOR SCOTT: I think the institution, the wisdom, of God in marriage, the fact of wanting to be complete is right. As we talked about that this morning, that woman was taken out of man, the completion is when two become one flesh. When do I need to get married? When am I ready to get married? When I'm at a place in my life where God has blessed me and I sense a need. I need to be complete. Our manhood is never fulfilled or realized until we have this union, until we're complete. That's when we realize what it means to be a man, when we take a woman. That feminine that was removed from man, the male, is put back into our lives and gives us that feminine perspective on life. Those that He calls, those that He gifts to be single that completeness that Colossians says is in Christ. He can make up that difference to those that He calls and gifts to be single, but for the majority of us, He uses other people in our lives to meet that need of wholeness and fullness. As a young man, for me to want a wife and to want this completeness is very natural, and it's not lust-oriented. There is the physical appetite. There is that drive that's within us, in the physiology, but don't think, "What's wrong with me there? This is something in my life that I'm dealing with." When Paul said it's better to marry than to burn, he is recognizing the natural tendencies in that physical aspect. God put that there. Why? To multiply and replenish the earth; and when it's used in its proper order, it's the gift of God. That's very important. We'll show you that in Corinthians as we go on in the study, but that's a very big part of this thing and a natural desire. Just keep it in its order, and it's the gift of God.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: I think I have several questions, and maybe they'll come out during this statement. I know we believe that on personal prophecy, say somebody says, "The Lord told me that you're supposed to go to Africa." If you say that it's not confirmed in your heart then, obviously, it's not of God. Is that different from a young man coming to ask a young lady to marry him, and nothing is confirmed in her heart or the father's heart regarding that? I know you've addressed attraction, but could you address confirmation in the heart versus not being attracted? I guess that's first on the list.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, and I think that's a very good question. I think that's really addressed in Genesis 24 when Abraham sends his servant to look for a wife for Isaac. You remember the story and all of the scenario. Even after everything was supernaturally seen, the fact of the matter is 99.99% of us will not experience that type of an experience and confirmation of whom God wants us to marry. Okay? You're not Abraham. You're not Isaac. You're you. The three dreams, vision, the guy at the well, the drawing of the water-some of that may happen, and you won't recognize it until later. It's easy to see that when you read backwards, but I'm going to point out one thing. After all of the confirmations, God spoke to Abraham and Abraham sent his servant. All of the supernatural circumstances were in place, and her father still said, "Do you want to go marry this guy?" In was in her heart to do it. That's the real criteria. You, as a father, a loving father, a young man would come and address you and say, "You know, I'm interested in one of your daughters." You look and you see all of this criteria being met in their lives. They're godly men, there is the fruit of the spirit, everything is orderly, and the real responsibility at that point is on you, as the father, to sit there and say, "Is there any reason why not? What is lacking in this?" What we have to deal with as fathers are our own emotions. We have to deal with our own fears. We have to deal with our own natural tendencies, as we go back to spiritual guidance (and that's one of the questions we're talking about), the real aspect of knowing and confirming is usually in that peace factor, the peace that I have. I may not have specific word, guidance, but I don't see any reason why not. Everything-yes. Am I all gung-ho on it? I may not have that either, but I don't see any reason why not. There's no reason that I can see. Then we're at that peace that I think really is important in our lives, and when we saw that teaching on guidance, "...they assayed to go" (Acts 16:7). They made every provision, but the peace wasn't there. They couldn't fulfill what they saw as the right thing. It just wouldn't happen, so the loss of peace or the presence of peace becomes one of the main criteria rather than a "God just hasn't talked and said yes." Has God said no? Is everything just kind of... Because, you see, there doesn't have to be-and this may help out in guidance and these areas, too-there doesn't have to be a "Oh, man, something's not right here, I just don't feel a peace." "Yes, it's the Lord!"

We're talking about something that's normative. This is natural. What's happening here is natural. The biblical requirements are in place both with the fruit-fruit, maturity, following God, vision, goals, yes, yes-and it doesn't have to be thunderclaps and audible voices because it's what's right. This is the right thing. We're just doing what's natural in many of our lives. "I'm waiting to hear from God." You've heard from God. "It's not good for you to be alone." You've heard from God. "If you're in agreement, you can walk together." These are the different areas, so I think we need to, as we're prayerfully seeking, to make that all a part of our approach to this, too. I'm usually more aware of that "Man, I'm not at peace" than I am, "Yes, this is the will of God." If that's not there, then I think, here I am a young man, and I come to you. I say, "Mr. N---, I'm at a place where I really believe that I'm ready to get married. I'm interested in your daughter, and I think I can wash her with the Word. I see the fruit in her life, and I see your marriage and the way you treat your wife, and I'm going to want your help and your counsel. I would like to make covenant with your daughter." You're sitting there, and you don't have that loss of peace and whatever, and this kid meets all of these requirements. Then your next step would be to go to your daughter. Here I am, and I come to you, and then you would go to your daughter and say at that juncture, this is something that... Of course, in talking to this young man, you'd say, "Have you talked to your dad?" "Yes, and he said Mr. N--- is not that bad of a guy, so I guess we could maybe hook up with that family, I don't know or whatever." "Yes, I've talked with my dad." Then at that point, you might want to ask your daughter and say, "Here's where we are. What do you think?" It's amazing the responses that you could get. It's a myriad of things that we've seen. It could be, "Hmmm," and that thing just goes off. Poofff, yeah, that's God!

That's what happened in Isaac's life. "Yes, this is God. I'm ready." That's the will of God. It's amazing how this can happen because spiritual guidance and the will of God is not known before. It's known momentarily. It's known when you go, "Whoa!" Now, that moment can happen even before this scenario. There can be a knowing in that person even before it comes to this point. It's known when it's known when God reveals it. Those, I think, are the ways that we're aware, but the peace in your life. It has to be a mutual agreement between the heads of these homes. There has to be peace in both of those. The young man should not be coming to you as a father of daughters until he's already talked with his dad, and his dad is at peace and says, "You know, you couldn't go wrong there. If that's on your heart, you go talk to the man and ask him." That brings us to that scenario, and now it's in your court. You're the one that's going to be hearing from God. As fathers having to make those decisions, we become very, very concerned that we make a good decision. The good decision, again, though, is not based upon all of those intricate details. It's based upon the general evidence of the fruit, the character, the pursuit. That's what makes this thing work, because two people totally in love with God will become totally in love with one another. That's the thing that we have to face. Does that address that, or is there more?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: That addressed that, yes. I'm just trying to think if there was a follow-up. I guess maybe one quick follow-up. I think I know the hearts of my daughters, like you say, whether they're ready or whether they want to get married. I'm not sure that there's some mentality that once you graduate from high school that you're free game, that you're ready to get married. Personally, I don't think that's necessarily true just because you reach a certain age. I don't know if you would address that, but I think a father knows the hearts of his children if he's close to them and knows whether they are prepared enough to take on that responsibility. Just because they reach a certain age, again personally, I don't think that passes the test of whether you're ready to get married.

PASTOR SCOTT: Right, at any age.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Yes.

PASTOR SCOTT: Being older doesn't make you any more ready than being younger. You're ready when you're ready, and I think that's the key. I mentioned the Talmud, where the Jews were. They kept getting married earlier and earlier, so finally in Talmud, they had to make a rule. Guys can't get married before thirteen, and the girls can't get married before twelve. That was the earliest that they would let them marry. The thing that's very important for many of us as parents to understand, and what he is saying, is the very thing. You need to know your children. Do you know your children? That is very important in helping them see where they are and making these final determinations. Again, and I'll make the statement that I made earlier. I'm not as concerned with how experienced, or whatever, my child is as much as how communicative they are. We can't expect our children to be as mature as we are when they get married, but we want them to be mature enough to seek our wisdom and our counsel, so we can help them in these areas. Now, they're one hundred percent. "My child is ready to get married because he's one-hundred percent got his act together, and he's got this in line and that in line." That's just not going to happen. For us to sit back and say, "Well, he's got a lot to learn..." Don't we all? Is he going to be seeking counsel? Am I going to be able to help him through some of these particular things? Those are very important.

The question he was asking, is once they graduate from high school, they're fair game. Yes, why not? That doesn't mean that they're ready. It's something to be considered. It's something to be taken a look at and say, "Where are they?" "Well, they should be this old or that old or finish this or that." You can't find that in the Scriptures. If your child doesn't mature enough spiritually to be ready until they're forty, then forty's the age. If they're ready at the age of eighteen, and somebody approaches you that's ready in those different areas, now you've got a decision to make. Paul says in Corinthians to not be fearful of allowing your virgin to fulfill the particular purpose in her life. What I would do, very clearly, would be to just sit down and say, "Where are you in these different areas?" Hopefully, they would see on their own. "Yeah, like I'm ready to get married. I can't even keep my own room clean." The guy that's asking would be really happy to know if you tell him. "You know, my daughter's a slob. You don't want her cleaning your house." Those are things that, if you know your kids, and you're able to determine their readiness, it would be all things that we as parents factor into this. Just be careful that we don't set preconceived prejudices on this, and just look at spiritual maturity, communication, and, as I stated earlier, these different areas.

Those two kids that got married yesterday in Baltimore-some of you were up there-twenty and nineteen. She's out of high school how long? Couple of weeks, the ink's almost dry on the diploma. I have no concern for those kids. They're going to be fine. We've watched them grow up together. They love God. They're committed to the community. They're both communicative with their parents; they seek counsel. They not only seek it, they follow it. They're not going to have any problems. The point I'm making is that age doesn't have anything to do with it. It has to do with the environment and these different aspects that are part of building and growing a community, so hopefully that helped. Any other questions? Do you guys have any comments on that part? What do you think about those kids in Baltimore? Do you think they're going to make it? Go ahead and ask and then Chuck will comment on that other after.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Pastor, what about the statement that sometimes people make that "I want to marry somebody that's in the ministry"? Can you address that point?

PASTOR SCOTT: Chuck said "We're all already married." "If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work" (1 Timothy 3:1). The call on the lives of people in ministry at whatever level, the pastoral level, the deacon level, these are very honorable positions that God places people in. There are requirements for those offices of being married, the husband of one wife. A godly helpmeet is probably the greatest contribution to getting a man into one of those positions, and helping and assisting. As we've looked over the years at different men to be placed in these roles, we always take that into consideration as a part of it. Now, here's an individual saying, "I want to marry somebody in ministry." That's an admirable thing. I think what Chuck said is something that is very obvious though. We're talking about a very small minority among the body of Christ. The way to make that happen would be to give yourself totally to the ministry, because someone who's called to it will recognize somebody involved in it. You're not marrying a position; you're assuming a responsibility of caring for the flock. I would say that, if you want to marry a man of God called into the ministry, then you're going to have to be somebody who is exceptional in your character and pursuit and service to the rest of the body. That will make you a candidate. Other than that, then, as you marry, make sure (with your heart's desire to be that involved in ministry) that if it's not somebody that's in ministry, that God would sovereignly make available, then you're sure going to want to, and will attract others that are going to be giving their lives into the ministry. I think that's just one of the practical ways of looking at that. "I'm holding out for somebody in the ministry." You're probably going to hold out a long time, as a rule, because there are not that many. Does that help at all? Aren't we all ministers? Aren't we all called and ordained to bear fruit and our fruit remain. We're all ministers. We're just ministering at different areas of responsibility in the body. If I were you, and I were a young lady or young man, I would be looking for somebody that's just as involved as I am.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Going back to the scenario that you were talking with, and your comment this morning about "I don't have feelings." Let's say a young man comes to that conclusion you alluded to earlier that said, "I'm ready to be fulfilled in that way. I'm ready to have a wife," but he doesn't have a particular attraction to anyone. He looks around, he says, "Here are a few young women that I've grown up with. I've seen their character. It's been tested through school, youth group, young adults, whatever it is, but how do I decide?" What would you establish as the priority or the sequence at that time without taking in the Western culture, the "feelings"" How do you make a determination from a select pool of ones that meet your criteria of being people that are pursuing God and have godly character?

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, that's a good question. Let's take the individuals that, all things given, are pretty equal. Then as a young man, I would look at one other thing. Which one of those fathers would I be most compatible with? You've got two males that are going to be interacting, and we all know how that works. Am I going to interact? Am I going to mesh better with one clan than another? Practically, that would be something to take into consideration. As I shared before, these all being determinations, the feelings, and all of those other things, will follow. They are real, and you can't partake of them lawfully, as we said this morning, and be in biblical order. In our society, in Western civilization, we give away our hearts before we should, lawfully. In the process, too many young Christians not only give away their hearts, but they give away their bodies, and they fall into sin. Premarital sex is just about as high in many of your Christian churches as it is in the world, because one thing follows giving away your heart. This is why we try to keep that from happening here. That's why we try to keep fellowship in community, in groups, and not isolating, and those things, to protect ourselves. All things given, those would be a few of the practical things that I would consider. Then all things from there, I would sit back-and even though I'm not absolutely one hundred percent totally smitten-does one of them comb their hair the way I like it better than the other one. Is there something that would attract me a little more than someone else, and then you go from there. It's like the story we told about the guy trying to choose between the two women. One of them was beautiful, and the other one could sing beautifully and had a great ministry, and he decided to be spiritual, and he married the homely one that could sing. The first morning they woke up, and he rolled over and looked at his wife and woke her up and said, "Sing, woman!" All things given, and what we can't do, though-and that's the point we've been making-we can't let that be preeminent. It can't be the determining factor. These all becomes residual things that would help in what's really important. Does that help a little bit?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: I know you addressed this in detail in the breakfast yesterday, for the young ladies' sake, if you could address the aspect of when, for example, someone's interested in someone else, and their friend knows about it. The friends have a tendency, and I've heard this among some of the youth, and some of the older young adults, that they'll stay away from that individual even though they're interested in them because their friend is. I know you addressed that in depth with the men yesterday. It's probably good for the women to hear that part of it, too.

PASTOR SCOTT: Right. Let me comment on that. Do you guys have any comments on any of the other answers so far to anything that you want to share that might help?

PASTOR LAROCK: One quick comment going back to the previous question. If I understood it correctly, you were asking, if someone came and said kind of like a personal prophecy almost. "God told me that I'm supposed to marry your daughter," or maybe someone on your team comes to you and says, "God told me that I'm supposed to marry this person that's on your care team." Okay.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Inaudible.

PASTOR SCOTT: And looking for you to give confirmation? Do you mean to entertain even giving it an answer? I don't guess I'm understanding. Did you understand?

PASTOR LAROCK: Are you saying that he feels that God told him? Just inquiring?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: If he's asking the question, obviously he feels led that the Lord is leading him in that direction, but the girl may not feel that the Lord is leading her in that direction.

PASTOR SCOTT: So then the answer is no.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Thank you.

PASTOR LAROCK: One of the things that I was going to add to that-and Pastor referred to this, this morning-is our involvement in other's lives; and if you felt that either as a dad or either as a deacon that there was some counsel you could give to this young man in addition to no. That would be helpful, too, because, though he's not your son, he is someone's son. He's part of our fellowship. He's part of the body of Christ, and if you felt, just from talking to him, that there was some wisdom that you could give to him to help him to see where he missed it or maybe this wasn't God. You really think it was God speaking to you. You said that really wasn't the case that you were presenting, but in some cases we've had that before where someone has said, "God told me that I'm supposed to marry you." The point I'm making is just to be involved in the lives of others and give help where you see that it can be given. There are some in here, young and old, that don't have dads. I know you do that, but I'm saying that for the benefit of everyone that when we're involved in situations, it's not just about taking care of me and mine and my family. If your involvement in these situations causes you to see needs that you can speak to in other people's lives, then give some help, give some counsel. If you're a dad, and you're not really sure what counsel to give, say, "I'm going to go talk to your deacon." You may do this yourself, just go talk to either the dad or the deacon and say, He came and shared this with me. I think he can use some help, and I don't exactly know how to counsel him myself, but I just wanted to let you know that this took place," so that you can help this young man because he's trying to find the mind of God.

PASTOR SCOTT: Again, just back to where we were. Let's take this scenario, and we want to try to get it away from [a particular] family, and make it a little more generic. This guy does come and he meets all of the biblical criteria, and you hear what he says. You say, "Well, I'm glad to hear you're interested in my daughter, and I'll take it to the Lord, and I'll be prayerful about this." The guy goes his way, and you go to your daughter and you say, What do you think about Victim A? Sweet Thing says, "No, I'm not marrying him. I'm not interested in him. Did you see he wears white socks with sandals?" The "no" may not be a good no. The "no" may be the fact that your daughter needs help; she has the wrong requirements. She has the wrong list going. Her "no" may not be no. You might need to look at her and say, "You know what? You're probably not going to find anybody better than that, and what's wrong with you?" What I'm saying is our children's "no" isn't just the final word in this thing. It's not over because they say no. It's like, "Why would you be saying no to that?" That's the message we're trying to get across to some of you parents. "Well, that's not on my criteria." Then, what are you looking for? If this guy, and the scenario we presented to the hypothetical that he threw out, we're talking about somebody that is grade A. Then, what are you looking for? I'd want to know from my daughter. "What are you looking for? What do you want?" Do you know what it's going to come back to? "I don't have feelings. I don't like the way he looks. I don't like..." and it's going to have nothing to do with what's important, and that's where the problem is. That's what we're addressing in all of this. Shouldn't they have a say? Yes, there's a say, but it has to be a biblical say. It has to meet the same criteria.

When Rebekah agreed to go-the question was presented, again, in this sovereign act-this is not indicating, because it would be totally contrary to culture in that era, this was not saying the girl had the final say. It was showing the fulfillment of that whole scenario, that biblical scenario, as you look again at biblical exegesis, that God was ordaining this, and she was recognizing God. She was going to fulfill the purpose of God. That's what she was saying yes to. She wasn't saying yes to Isaac. She hadn't seen the guy. She was saying yes to the will of God, the purpose of God. We can't miss that in that whole scenario of the truth of that story. Let's not inject Western thought again into that statement. I think that's important for us. I hope that helps you a little bit.

About backing off because of somebody stating an interest and these different areas. As information is shared-I asked the question in men's breakfast yesterday, how many of you are aware of the latest Calvary Temple secret? Most of us are because very little here is kept secret. We're a family. We share things. Sometimes we talk too much. We need to make sure it's not to the detriment of anybody, but it's some of the nature of the beast. It can't ever be gossip; that's sin. We need to sometimes to hear more and speak less, but, nonetheless, we talk. Information gets out, so what do we do? There are no claims that are laid on anybody. Until a covenant is cut, everybody is fair game. Well, I heard that so and so likes so and so. "Well, that guy better get off the stick because I'm going in there, man." We need to be aware that, as these things are shared, we don't lay claims and set aside people to put on reserve. "Well, that person's a senior in high school, and I'm reserving them, so don't anybody even think about it. After they graduate, whatever their dad thinks is long enough, three weeks or three years, then that's mine." You think? That's part of what we said. You're not your own. You're bought with a price. There was a question that was asked here that I want to address and this will go along with part of what he was saying. Maybe you guys can comment on it. I thought this was interesting in the nine questions on this list that somebody brought. I'd like to know who this one is.

This is a good question. If you go places in a group, but from the outside, that group being analyzed could be actually broken up into couples who like each other, is that a group, or is it my best friend and I going on a date with the two girls that we like? Anybody in here sharp enough to answer that one? Please hear the spirit again of what we're talking about. We're talking about exclusivity. We're talking about laying claims. We're talking about dividing, "This is my girlfriend, and she is distinctly mine." That's not what the scripture teaches that we do. That's not community. That's not body ministry. That is Western civilization, independence, and that's what we're saying isn't best. Now, if you want to back it down and ask just from a perspective of other things that we try to do and why we try to stay in groups. We try to stay in groups for a number of reasons, to keep that possessiveness from being built and established, from giving your heart to people before you need to, of being seen as an item that in and of itself perpetuates. The only good thing in this is that, at least you're not alone, and there's more protection from your physical appetites and potential dangers as Christians. In the world, double dating is no safety; it's just a party.

These are things that we have to look at, so other than that one biblical principle of somewhat providing safety for yourself, none of the others are being met in that scenario, so who are you fooling? The rest of you, Pastor Jeff tried to talk over and over about why don't some of you challenge this? Why didn't somebody say something about that in this particular scenario? You're adults. You're standing around watching this. Why didn't somebody say something? Why don't you go buy a ticket and go with them? There they are on their date. I mean, their group activity. As you're following them up the steps at the movie, they're getting ready to sit down, just jump right in the middle of them. Can I have some of your popcorn? Here are the two dates, and you're there, and she wants some of your popcorn. What are you doing to edify? What are you doing to protect your brothers and sisters? What are you doing to contribute to the benefit? I think that's the real issue. Any comments on Tony's question or any of the others? Does that answer it some?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: A best friend may know that his best friend likes someone or has an interest in someone, so for courtesy's sake, they won't even show an interest. Say this girl is a godly girl and that meets all the criteria that you're talking about. Like you did with your friend with Janet, you use that example many times how you threw your hat in the ring, too. I think there's some misconception with some of these young adults and stuff that if the criteria is there, it doesn't matter whether their best friend is interested or not, they can throw their hat in the ring.

PASTOR SCOTT: Sure.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Because the girl, for example, may be, may think this is the only person that's interested in her. He meets the criteria too, but both of them do, you know what I'm saying?

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, and this comes into another one of these questions. They had some good questions in this; I think some very good questions. Where did that one go that went along these lines? How do you spend time with everyone and always go where the person you're interested is at the same time? I like that question, too. That's a good one. Invite everyone to where they're going. If I'm interested in this particular person right here, make yourself a clique breaker. Well, you know, they're that clique, that group over there. They won't be that any more if you show up. Amen? Bring a couple of your misfit friends with you. Now, you've just destroyed that clique. Now, they're not special anymore because you're there. You just ruined the whole thing. Now, everybody just comes. Hey, they're not special. If they're there, we can go. Now, you've made it a body again, because they're not going to throw you out. "I don't feel wanted there. I don't feel welcome." Well, then your friends have a problem, and they need you to help them grow up and mature and to prefer others better than themselves, so go help them. Bring your old misfit self up there and help them. That's the body. That's what we're talking about.

Any other questions? Got a couple more over here. Let me see if I can read some more of these cool ones here. I like this one. I'll read this, and then we can look at it later. If Janet had her heart set on Bill Beasely, but Bill Beasely was interested in someone else, how would that have changed your actions? So Janet liked Bill, Bill liked somebody else. I was interested in Janet. Parenthetical statement-all the girls you're interested in are holding out for somebody else. That's a good question. What do you do when all the guys that turn me on, turn me down? Any of you ever hear that at Country Bear Jamboree, Disney? We'll talk about that in just a second. Maybe we better talk about it now. What was the first question? Yes.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: The kids all know each other pretty well, and so let's say a young man comes and talks to a father, and then the father talks to his daughter and says, "Well, how about him?" They know enough faults that if they want to reject that person they can probably list ten to twenty faults if they want to which would make you start thinking well maybe that's not such a good idea. Could you comment on that?

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, we do know a lot about each other and the faults, so let's say, again, Victim A comes, and he addresses you and says, "I'm interested in your daughter," and you go to your daughter. She says, "Yes, but, when he was in the third grade, he stole a pencil from Mrs. Heglund's desk. When we were at the mall witnessing, he was at Haagen-Dazs." Okay, but what is he now? Is he those isolated incidents, or is he the accumulation of all of that? Is he a man of God? Is he good enough to marry your friend but just not good enough for you? When you hold up your own life to his in every one of those areas that you've just been critical, where are you superior? Could you be the answer to making him the complete man? He just needs a few little things that you fulfill in that life. Those are all very real questions that we have to ask. It doesn't mean that the first guy that comes up and asks is the guy that it's supposed to be, but I'm saying we all, especially as fathers and in giving counsel to our daughters, you see, this is not just those of us that have daughters.

Those of us that have sons that are going out to bring somebody into our lives, it's a very important part, too. We want to know, what does that person have that can make me a better servant of God, to prepare me for heaven? Is that person going to help me get to heaven? Am I able to help them get there? I would always say, "Okay, and so listen. Now, that's what they are today, that's where they are today. So you see them incapable of washing you with the water of the Word, of bearing godly fruit in their character, incapable of being a godly father?" They don't have that capacity, and if the answer is, "No, I don't believe they do," then you have the answer. At the same time, in all of these areas, it gives all of us as parents a great opportunity to ask our kids, "And what about you?" It's about giving; it's not about taking. That's an important part of it. We need to listen closely because our kids do know each other. We might sit there and say, "Oh, yes, that's a great guy," and they're saying, "You don't know." I think that is something we need to listen to and be very aware of because they do know each other, but make sure it's not all those other little prejudices. I think, as fathers, that will give us some help in being able to help them. Who else did we have? Do you guys want to comment on that?

MAN IN CONGREGATION: The individual that you mentioned, (I know it was funny), but the guy with the white sandals and the black socks or whatever it was, that individual, though let's say that all of those characters are there, that he's got the fruit, really maintaining it, and your daughter does come back with a response, "Well, what I see are the white sandals and black socks." I guess, at that point, there's a process that you get to go through with that child to help them understand what they really need to look for, because their list is clearly not in order. That's another growth process that could take who knows how long. In a sense, the child's really not ready to be given away. There needs to be a growth process there, until that gets corrected somehow, and they get to see that there really is Christ in that individual.

PASTOR SCOTT: What they need to see-that person who has the Bruno Magli shoes and driving the greatest car-if they came and ask for you today, I wouldn't say yes because your heart is not right. The thing you want, that you say you're holding out for, I'm not going to kill you with it. Because many of these thought processes of holding out is they think that is what's going to make them happy. That is not going to make them happy. "Godliness with contentment is great gain" (1 Timothy 6:6), and until they're free from all of these other things, they're not ready. They'll be destroyed with whatever their appetite has, and that quail will not cease to come out of their nostrils. Those are the things that we're trying to train our young people in now. What, in all of our minds, would be the optimum? The most godly person that meets every other desire that I have. They are one hundred percent the most spiritual person around, and they look the way I want them to look and dress the way, and drive, and they're successful. For women, this is a lot of those different aspects. How can I say this? We need to get out of fairy tale land. The odds of that happening are very small. You know what? You're probably going to end up with somebody just like you, just average. That's where we're at. You know what? If you think you're not average, if you think you're something special, that's your problem. That's what we're trying to help our kids see, so I hope that helps. Was there another?

WOMAN IN CONGREGATION: I was thinking along the lines of we're a close community, and we want to sow into other people's lives, especially the kids. I know that with the women, especially, they feel a compulsion to help out with matchmaking and setting couples up and that kind of thing. There's not too much you can do about getting the women to stop talking but maybe just along the lines of what would be appropriate? How could they really be a help instead of being a matchmaker? Is there anything? What would be appropriate for let's say you have a relative or a niece, nephew, something like that, what would be an appropriate way to sow into that child's life?

PASTOR SCOTT: Are women doing that here? What is that? That just shows the difference, men. We keep talking about distinct differences between men and women. You're wasting all that time in this matchmaking, and you could really be working on your car or something-something that's important, playing ball, taking a nap. Let's see. "Oh, wouldn't they make a cute couple!" That's starting. I guarantee you, man. We have a lot of babies, and a lot of them in the oven right now. If some of them happen to be born on the same day, I guarantee you those little babies could be in the nursery, and some of you women would say, "Oh, wouldn't they make a cute couple?" The kid's not a day old; you already have them matched up. They both have feet, so much in common. Anyway, what do we do with this? The key is, I think, to make sure that any observations that you happen to be making are always based upon those primary character traits of godliness and fruit. We talk about the good character of this person and the good character of that person. We never get specific in trying to manipulate or set up or whatever because we're going contrary to what we're trying to accomplish in letting people mature to the place to where there is evidence of fruit that needs to be initiated by the man and confirmed by the parents. These are different things that are important for us. In the scope of things, ladies, if I can put this in proper perspective-those of you that are trying to make all of this happen-you're way down in the food chain in this thing. Your role is being a helpmeet to your husband. The only women that should be involved in any of this are the mothers of the children involved, fulfilling their role to their husbands in giving feminine perspective as these decisions are being made.

Now, what about all this other residual talk? "Well, I wonder. So and so, they're single, why don't they get together?" You guys talk about that kind of stuff all the time. Do you know what? I'm asking that same question. I'm serious. I don't understand why, but the difference is, I'm not going to try to get anybody hooked up. I'll ask the question. I wonder what their problem is, but it's not like, "You know what? I think I'm going to have them over for dinner. I'll fix this thing, bless God! If the Holy Spirit can't do it, jump back!" It's the wedding planner, and here we go! That's where we step over the line. When you start trying to make things happen, you're over the line. When you start trying to influence preferential-and especially when it has to do with, "Because, you know, our family's special and our people, and we deserve the best, and so I'm going to make sure that those misfits don't come over and get into this bloodline," and start trying to reserve this person, like that one from the nursery, and you kidnap them and hold them captive for your child. Those are the things we have to guard against. Don't step over the boundaries in any of those areas. Whatever that compulsion is in you people. I don't know. It's not good for man to be alone, so we need to...

Let's finish here. It's getting late, but, guys, and I want to make a statement to single guys (especially older single guys). Don't start harassing all these girls. Don't start attacking every father before the service is over. In the first place, if you're one of the old dudes, and you're still single, and you want this young girl that's just coming out of high school, that dad is going to say, "Dude, you've proven by the fact that you've made it single this long that you're not the cream of the crop." All of those other old people that aren't married, all you people that aren't cream of the crop, you guys need to get together. This is special property here. Hey, I'm saying it like it is.

All of you people that aren't going to settle, you'd better settle. I don't know any other way to say it, because if God doesn't do a miracle... I don't know what to say to you. I'm serious. Very frankly, many of you-whatever that deficiency is, social, spiritual, character, whatever it is-are saying, "Well, (and we hear the teaching), there's no stigma in being single." No, there is not a stigma, but there is something. If it's not God's will that you be alone, and you've gone this long and you're alone, then something's not working. What's not working is probably your estimation of yourself. That's probably where the error is, and I've made that statement many times. You're going to have to step back and face reality, and for you younger people, too. "It's going to be Prince Charming, and he's going to look like this, and we're going to have this life and the picket fence, and the mansion, and the three point two kids, and the whatever. He's going to be Super Saint and whatever." That probably isn't going to happen either. Let's step back and look at what the Bible says is God's will for us, what is the real criteria for a godly person. I want to tell you something because we are hung up on the natural and the physical whether we still like to believe it or not. If not the natural, physical looks, we're looking for a certain environment, and reality is this. If you'll let God's standards be sufficient for you, do you want to know what will happen? That spouse will be better looking. That home will be ideal. The car will be just right. If you're godly enough and seeking.... Some of us mistake relationships and material things. "I'm so spiritual that I can..." "Godliness with contentment is great gain" and I'm just letting God work in my life. I'm being godly, and I'm content to drive this old wreck." If you're content to drive that old wreck, why aren't you content to marry that old wreck? "Well, I can trade this thing in when things get better." The point I'm making is, if God is your source, if God is your contentment, if that's what you're really talking about (and you're talking about internal contentment and peace and this person, regardless of whatever the outwards may be), if all of these spiritual things are there, I'm telling you, they will be beautiful. They will meet the needs in your life. They'll bring a contentment that nothing else will. The things that you think, are not the answer if they are contrary to these biblical character traits. We'll close for tonight, but I want to give a few... There are two here. Are there any others? We'll take one more over here and then we'll call it a night. We're going to finish early tonight because there's school tomorrow.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Pastor, since coming here, there have been a lot of changes in my own life. Going through a divorce myself and after that, the counsel that came to me was to let the ink dry and to not be in a rush to get married again. Looking around at these examples that I've seen around me, there have been those who have been patient, been faithful, and God has done a miracle and restored relationships, brought their former spouses back. Others have gone on to marry others here in our midst. In a case like mine, where I've been through a divorce, and, quite frankly, I'm afraid to rush back in or to do anything where I'm going to be married again. Is it wise to just continue to wait to let Father deal with me in that area, or should I step out of the boat and just start to pursue that, and just start looking at that more seriously?

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes, I think, without getting too specific in the individual cases, as we shared in this case, this is a situation where there has been a broken marriage. An unbeliever who has departed, a need for contentment in God to be worked in this life here, and basically what we said is you have to let the ink dry. You came out of a thing that was messed up. There's a lot of growth. The coming in to our midst and being established and proving and many of these different areas, but as parents, and as overseers, we want to make sure in a scenario like this, and I'll speak specifically to the incident, not to the person necessarily. When you mess one up, we're not going to be quick to let you mess up somebody else. Our counsel would not always be that, but until there's a stability, a proving in many of these different areas, as a father, I'm going to want to make sure that that life is together before I say yes. As an overseer of older singles in our midst and whose parents are not here, I wouldn't be quick. I would be saying, "I want to see something." We're not going to be quick to mess up another one. "What therefore God hath joined together, [what?] let not man put asunder" (Matthew 19:6). These are not just hit and miss trial, give-it-a-shot-type things, and so in these different areas where there is a situation like this. Now, when an unbelieving party departs, we're no longer under bondage. There's a freedom to marry, but at this particular time, timing, character, fruit are all vital ingredients of making that final determination. Even different than young virgins that have come up, in whom we see character, fruit, etc., under counsel, ready to be guided, ready to have compliments by parents and overseers into their lives, would be, in many cases, more ready than in these other scenarios to be helped and walked through these things. Those of you that find yourselves in that area, be patient. God will work if the timing's there. You're not under bondage, the Scripture says. You're free to marry when that one's defected, if they've defected because of your faith. If the divorce was not because of faith, if the divorce was prior to regeneration, if the divorce was based upon mutual self-love and division, then those are all things that we need to examine our own hearts and ask myself, "Am I ready now? Do I know that I'm not going to mess somebody up? Am I going to be a helpmeet? Am I going to be an overseer? Am I going to contribute positively?" Those are all questions I need to ask myself and my counselors to make sure I'm prepared to pursue in that area. Others? There was one back here. Yes.

WOMAN IN CONGREGATION: Yes, Pastor, what do you do in the case of an unbelieving spouse? If a young man is interested in your daughter, how would we handle something like that?

PASTOR SCOTT: In those particular situations, 1 Corinthians 7 makes it clear that the children are sanctified by the believing parent. An unsaved spouse has no say in whom our children marry. When it comes to those spiritual things, they're under the spiritual parent's authority and oversight. That's very clear in Corinthians, so they don't have input there. Any others? Yes.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Pastor, I remember in Men's Breakfast, you made a comment, and I haven't heard you speak upon it yet, and that was that the reason we have DT, and all of this, is to grow up young godly men and women in our midst, so they can marry each other, and there's a small pool. You made comment about Community or McLean Bible. They could be Christians, too, and the difference being our belief, their belief. When you were talking about Genesis 24, I was going back, and I was looking at that from the perspective of Abraham looking for a wife for his son. Not that the son was really looking for a wife, but Abraham was looking. I was also looking at the perspective that Abraham didn't see a woman suitable within the Canaanites, where he was living, for his son, so he sent his servant back to his father's homeland and then that scenario. Then I was looking at Boaz and Ruth, the Moabite woman, which is a type of Christ, and redemption, and I was looking at that, too, in the sense that I guess Boaz was never married. A beautiful Moabite woman came, but then she told Naomi that "thy God [will be] my God" (Ruth 1:16), and all of that was playing out. She was learning how to be Israelite or Hebrew and cut covenant with the God of Israel. Can you speak on that?

PASTOR SCOTT: Those are some of the things that, as we shared with people, would come into your midst and we realize those that were proselytes that would come into the nation Israel where Israel was allowed to marry there. The priests were not. We begin to see that God still has, throughout these things, degrees of holiness and separation and things that are permissible in one realm and not another. Those that are coming into our midst, we commented on that, that come in here and begin to fellowship and partake. We've shared that they are not second-rate, second-class believers. It's the embracing of the vision that makes us one. It's the two agreeing that make us one. We made comment this morning about McLean Bible, and would I let my daughter marry a Baptist? No way! But, they're Christians. There is going to be conflict. Doctrine is not a small thing. The gifts of the spirit are not a small thing. When we make those distinctions of our separation and the unity of our belief, those are the things that contribute to strength, to solidarity. We made comment this morning of building the wall, that singleness of purpose in holding the spear in one hand and laying brick with the other. Are we moving in one heart and one mind? As we see the commonness that we have here, and the vision, we have to ask ourselves, "Do we want to go into the general requirement of not being unequally yoked together? Could those people marry, and could they have a successful marriage?" Yes, because they haven't broken that general requirement. What is going to be best? Clear definition of purpose, pursuing the same thing. I guarantee that you're going to be hard put to find people outside this community that would train their children and raise their families the way we do. Do you want to do it a different way? Is there a better way? If it's not a better way, why would you choose it? Those all become part of the criteria that we look at. We, in no way, as I said, are looking at the fact that it could not happen uniquely.

God can do things. Many of those are unique circumstances. They were specific. The incidents were unique in Scripture for the purpose of God's sovereign will being accomplished. They weren't general guidelines that the majority of the people lived by. We're presenting what's here for most of the general. I can't use my own life as criteria. I've had quite an exceptional life. People in the Bible's lives were very exceptional. My situation, and I say exceptional, I wouldn't even necessarily encourage this to be what anybody would look for, but I've shared part of my testimony. When I was born again, that very week, I was in prayer sitting in the seat, and I happened to look up. I didn't know who Janet was. I looked up, and I saw this young lady sitting at the organ playing, and the Spirit of God said, "That's your wife." I wasn't looking. The type person I am, at that juncture, things were a little different, initially. I thought, "Okay, if that's the case, then, if this is God, He's going to have to make it happen." I actually tried to stay away initially because I wasn't going to make it something I did. If this is God, then let Him do it. God spoke to me specifically. You had better be very careful about that voice because I know a whole bunch of people who say, "God said," and it wasn't God that said. Some of you may think, "Well, God told me to marry so and so." We've had that here in this particular fellowship, and I won't give incidents that would embarrass anybody, but on more than one occasion I've heard "God said," and God didn't say because it hasn't happened. People have gone on to marry other people. Things that some were told, "God said," didn't materialize, etc. How do I know that that was God? I'm saying all that to say this. Don't make the unique or the spectacular be what we're referencing. It's the general principle of "it's not good to be alone," godly character, these different things, that will cause us as a community to be united and produce a godly seed.

If you're going to sit there and just pray and strain and fast and, "God show me who I'm supposed to marry," you're very likely going to be answered according to your idols. If I'm coming with a sincere heart, and I'm believing, then if you ask for a fish, surely you're not going to receive a serpent or whatever. If you are as yielded to the will of God and hearing the voice of God as you think you are in that diligent pursuit, you have already heard the principles and pursued them. The reason you haven't is because most of you, very frankly (and I'm trying to be as frank as I can with you), the reason you haven't heard God's voice yet is because it hasn't agreed with your will. That's where most of us are really living. I hope that will help some of you see what we're talking about. Did I address what you were stating? I don't even know if I addressed it properly or not.

MAN IN CONGREGATION: Yes, you have. The aspect of what you were bringing out in Men's Breakfast, too, about marrying amongst ourselves, too, and not so much, because we might see a believer, meet a believer at the mall. They're witnessing to us, and we, "Oh, you're a believer, too," so then you strike up a conversation. "Oh, you go to Calvary Temple." "Oh, you go to..." Then you have a fellowship, and then you have a friendship, then from there. I just was thinking about that.

PASTOR SCOTT: Yes. What you're saying is, and we've got to be careful that we don't get distracted by that and go, "Well, so they're believers," and the next thing you know we're kind of looking over here and enticed, and they're nice looking. Oh, there are a whole bunch of those guys over there, and the fact is there are, and they're probably good folks and love God, and they're going to heaven. Father has put you in a place that's unique. If you want to move outside of that, then we come back to part of what we talked about this morning. We're saying now that this Western thought of my independence, my separation is an acceptable biblical principle, and, now, the removing of the ancient landmarks, the giving back to what was sown is not important. What's important is I met a guy that meets my criteria at another church, that I can meet the minimal requirement. He's a Christian. Why would I say that's minimal? Because you're blowing off all of these other biblical patterns of community, of the aspect of our faithfulness, our sowing and giving rather than taking and all of these principles that we've shared, become secondary to the minimum requirement. He's a Christian. He meets all of these other heart's desires that I have. What has his family sown into your life? What part of anything that he's done has contributed and sacrifices made to give you all that you've received over all of these years? That's not cheap stuff. That's not something that can just be taken and squandered without putting the proper value on it. Those are some of the things we're trying to put out.

What John is saying is, "Yes, be careful, because they are Christians." Yes, but is that the best for you? Is that (and especially as we're talking about young ladies), is that where you want your children raised? You want them raised differently? You want them raised in a different environment because you're going where your husband goes. Fathers, are you going to give your children to that? That's where the bottom line I think has to be addressed.

We'll pull the plug on it for tonight. There are a lot of different things. Just be open to what God is saying. I know for some of you not-so-young Young Adults that I was very frank with you tonight. I love you. I've shared my heart with you. I'm asking you to really step back and say, "Am I being honest with myself?" That's all I'm asking you to do. I guarantee you one thing. If you are in hot pursuit of God, somebody will be in hot pursuit of you. Amen. That's something to really, really take a look at. Now, for some of the young ladies, and there are some of you that are in pursuit of God in different areas, some of our guys need to wake up and realize there are some outstanding young ladies, and not-so-young young ladies, here and vice versa. Be prayerful. Let God speak to you. If you remain single, you're not second rate, but you could be missing out on God's best for you. I'd take that into consideration.

Father, give us Your wisdom. Order our steps. Help us to see ourselves, our prejudices, our preconceived notions. Father, remove fear from the hearts of parents. Help us to see that the Word works. Help us to see, as we've talked about the marriage yesterday. The greatest, the greatest environment are family units to where young people can be assisted by the wise counsel of their parents, and they'll stand, and they'll raise a godly seed, and we'll see another generation for Your glory. Make it real, Father, we ask in Jesus' name. Amen. Lord bless you. Get those babies in bed!

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