Bible Teaching

Calvary Temple Teaching Library

Panel Discussion

PASTOR SCOTT: The good news is, with the panel, that our teaching on tithing is over. The other good news is that we have been hearing testimony. A number of people have been blessed, and the Lord has ministered to some hearts. That is an exciting thing to hear. Again, sharing with you all the motives, I was sharing Sunday the real issue and the real purpose of this, I believe, that Father allowed us to go into this season was to deliver some of us from that curse, to help some of us see that we were--. The whole topic that we really have been on for almost 18 months now, from every angle. We have been looking at the fact that we are being vexed constantly in this world, and some of us in ways that we don't know. We think we are okay, and yet we're being more affected by this spirit of Sodom than we would like to admit, or more than we are aware of. So we go over subject after subject, showing us that this warfare is going on and that our hearts can be in many ways affected and deceived. It has been a good time in this particular study. We have tried to stay away from some of the specifics on it.

But in dealing with the basics, let's go ahead and look at Proverbs 3 again. We want to spend a couple of seconds in review and remember the passages in Proverbs 3. Then we will look real quickly at the passage in Malachi. Proverbs, verse 5 of Chapter 3: "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine." The whole teaching was to give God His due, to give Him His honor.

We saw in Malachi, of course, the first verses there, the reproof and the rebuke that was coming to the priests. The priests were being rebuked because they were allowing the people to do less than God had commanded them to do. Their reason for allowing the people to bring the halt, maimed, and blind was their selfishness, their own fear. You have to remember that the priests were living off the offerings, so they were willing to accept something instead of nothing. God brought them reproof and talked about the dung on their faces (Malachi 2:3) and the shame for the reproach that was brought on the house of God. He said, "I demand of you honor. If I am a sovereign, a god, then where is my honor? As a father, where is that respect that is mine?"--the rebuke that He gave to the priests. Then the priests, of course, carrying that on to the body, encouraging them, and talking to them about the fact that they, then, were cursed with a curse and that God wanted to open the windows of heaven and pour out blessings that they couldn't contain (Malachi 3:9-12).

The whole spirit of that is the same as Proverbs. That is what we have tried to make the topic: a people that are honoring God, a people that recognize the fatherhood of God, a people that really understand that "the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof" (Proverbs 24:1). Everything belongs to God. We are very aware of the fact that Father refers to us as "stewards," not only of the tenth (that is holy and separate to God, that we have no business touching). The basic teaching is that everything else you are in stewardship of. We talked about that aspect some.

We did not get into the realm of prosperity and abundance and the different aspects of our responsibilities there. But primarily, can we sit back and examine our hearts and ask, Am I blessing God? Am I honoring God with my whole life, with my talents, with my resources?

Then we talked about the word in Proverbs of "substance." "Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase" (Proverbs 3:9). We saw that "substance," probably one of the best choices we can use today to bring us to what was being said there is "your worth, your net worth." We kind of laughed in the back, because we have talked about so many different things in trying to get this into twenty-first century America, etcetera, etcetera. I finally told one of the guys. We said, "This was worth this, and I bought it for this. What do I do?" I said that we ought to say it this way: We ought to give to the degree that we brag--what we are worth, what I made, what I have. We should just give according to our bragging, and that might put it all into perspective. We like to talk about all of our great successes and what we have done and all of these different things. That is what we ought to honor God with, because He has given us all of it. And He has given us richly all things, the Scripture says, to enjoy. So that is a little bit of review. Is there anything any of you guys want to comment on that stood out to you in the teaching? Then we'll see what questions there might be. Jon?

PASTOR MILLER: Yes. The worship aspect is one that you brought out very well. God loves a cheerful giver. When that becomes your heart attitude, "How can you not give?" was the response. You said, "How many of you guys have given $100 in the offering plate just to say, ‘Thank you, Jesus, for saving me'?" It comes down to worship. It's not about the amount; it's about the worship. You talked about the Pharisees a little bit, getting over every leaf and every little thing to make sure they gave God their 10 percent. Their motive was, "That way I got my full 90 percent."

PASTOR SCOTT: Right.

PASTOR MILLER: You brought out the point that God gave you all of it, and you are privileged and honored to give 10 percent. It's all about worship; it's all about the privilege of worshiping Him. That point was brought out very well, and it helped me out a lot to realize what is going on. It is not about giving the 10 percent; it is not about giving the offering; it is about worshiping the Lord--and how that needs to carry into all of our lives in every aspect. It's not just in the giving; it's in every aspect. How can we rob God in this one area? It's not ours to begin with. That point was brought out very well in the teachings.

PASTOR SCOTT: Praise God. Anybody else?

PASTOR LAROCK: Not being cheerful can really rob you of a blessing. I know there have been times that I have thought, "Oh man, I didn't tithe on that. Darn!" I knew that I had to tithe on it. Then I checked myself and thought, "What you are thinking, ‘Darn, I didn't tithe on that; I have to tithe on that now'?" The thing is to just check yourself and think, Are you begrudging giving to the Lord? If so, it really robs you of the joy that Father intended for us to have in giving to Him and recognizing His goodness. He's our dad! Beyond being our dad, in addition to being our dad, He is the Ancient of Days, the God of the Universe.

That passage in Malachi really speaks to me and has spoken a lot to me over the years. You can tell how God is really taking note. Sometimes we think, "Well, God will understand. It's kind of tight this month. God will understand." He said, "You honor governors." "You honor your boss" would be a contemporary way of saying what this passage says. He says, "If then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear?" He doesn't understand any more than you would expect your boss to understand. "I didn't do any work today, but my boss will understand." No. "I took my paycheck, and didn't do any work this week." "I took a week's vacation without telling anybody, but my boss will understand." The thing is respect, reverence, honor. God does notice. He takes note. "If I'm your father, if I'm your god, you don't even give me the honor that you give your boss! You don't even give me the honor that you give your government! You are afraid of the consequences of your boss. You fear the consequences of not paying your taxes. I am God, and I'm your dad; and this is the way you are treating Me?" Father wants to have a relationship.

Pastor just finished up the teaching on prayer and started out with a couple of sessions on "our Father," that aspect. Of course, that is a two-way street. God does want to be a Father to us, but we have a responsibility to be children and sons that are mature, that love Him, and that honor Him. So, that passage has really spoken a lot to me over the years, where you just see God's heart in the relationship aspect. It is not a thing with Him of making sure that you have paid your dues. With Him, it's about honor, and it's about fear--"Why are you relating to Me in this way?"

As Pastor has brought out in this teaching, it's really all about honoring God, showing Him honor, showing Him reverence, and acknowledging Him. The Deuteronomy passage warns about when we are so blessed, to not forget the Lord and to say that it was by my hand, by my cunning, by my gifts, by my talents, by my abilities, by my whatever-it-is, by my skills. The tithes and offerings are ways to acknowledge that everything that we have has come from Him. Everything we have has come from Him. To be able to give freely and willingly and cheerfully does honor God, because it makes that statement. We have to do it over and over again. What I mean is calling it to mind and really purposing to honor God when we give and not let it become just something that we do habitually, but really find joy in giving when you put your envelope in the offering plate, to really find joy in that. Talk to your spouse about it; talk to your kids about it. I do that. I share with the kids when there is a special missions offering, "This is what we are able to do." Sometimes I may say the dollar amount; sometimes I may not. Just to let them know, "This is what we are doing for the glory of God. Isn't that a blessing?" Because it is a blessing. It's a joy to be able to give.

PASTOR SCOTT: Amen. It is so important to train the children up. This is something that the children ask, "What is this memorial?" It's so important that each generation understands the cost in honoring God and in worshiping and that that makes us unique from the rest of the world. I think that is very important. Jeff?

PASTOR HEGLUND: One of the things that I thought was a real blessing about this teaching and the time that we have been having is just how you have shared a number of times, "We're not teaching on this because we are having a problem or because there is not enough money. We are not fund raising, but it is out of a concern." You have even said, "I am not speaking to the ones that are giving. I'm talking to you that aren't giving. Not because we need more money in the bank accounts." You were talking about Moses when he had to tell the people to stop giving. We are not having to tell the people to stop giving, but we are not telling them to give because we are having to do something at this time. It was out of a care for people's souls.

I was really blessed--I don't look at names of things either; it's not my place--by how many people here have just been faithful givers. As you have been teaching, those kinds of things go through my mind. Of course, I have been a huge beneficiary of that over the however many years I have been here, 21-some years, a beneficiary of just people giving their lives. The money is just one part of our life, one small part. I could probably guess who the faithful tithers are, because you see the joy and the strength, and that's what their life is. We have so many of those people here that it is unbelievable. Just to hear a few of the testimonies over the years, and then even in recent days, of some of the ones we are not talking to, it's very humbling--not just to hear sometimes the dollar amounts that people are being blessed by the Lord or that they are offering to pay for this land in Africa. Certainly in watching your [indicating Pastor Scott] life and whatever it is, whenever God asks or it is on your heart to pay for this property, or selling this so this can go there--just the example that you have been in giving.

I guess in my heart, in just watching and thinking about the people that I have gotten to watch as I have grown up, or now people that I am working with, and seeing them pour their lives out. Finance is just a small part, and of course, the blessing that goes along with it here. And most importantly, all that God gives to us--His peace, His life, His strength, the joy of being able to serve. I guess I just thought of it in this teaching of, I don't know where I would be--I do know where I would be--if it wasn't for the Lord and for what the Lord has given us here in a place like this where there are people who train us up every day and are looking out for our souls and all these different areas, not just about tithing (certainly, that brings a curse). But even the simplest things of gossip, and we don't want to be judged for being sinners. We don't want to miss out on the presence of the Lord. And we just get that day after day, week after week. Of course, it's the leadership. But that's just a part of it. It's the body. It's Ephesians 4--everybody doing their job and caring for each other.

What would you give for that? What would a man give in exchange for his soul? If we spent one day in hell, what would you give? We saw the rich man and Lazarus--"If I could just go back! Maybe I can't do anything, but can I tell my family?" What would we give for the kind of care that we have?

Just to see that spirit so alive here in us as a people, in yourself. I have always been very thankful that you are not a man who is going to cower down to the people's opinions or what people are saying--"His house is too nice" or "His car is too nice" or "He's too blessed." You have always stood up and said, "Look, this is what the Word of God says." God has blessed you, and to have that is such a great strength. I know it's not you personally; it's the Lord.

But just thinking, What would we give for that? If you really sit back and think of how blessed we are and what the Lord has sown into us, it is a priceless gift to have the presence of God and His instruction and to have it working to whatever degree it's working. It seems to be working well where people are serious about being free from sin and serious about loving each other, and the whole world is shooting each other for who-knows-what. We're blessed. Just that little bit. I guess I'm thankful. Just during the teachings, even sitting over there just thinking we are just so blessed to have all those things, certainly pastors after God's own heart--"We are not going to make apologies." That is not an easy thing to do in this day and age where everything is politically correct and everything is done by polls. It's a precious thing that we have got.

PASTOR SCOTT: It is a real blessing. The Scripture says, "The blessings of the Lord make rich, adds no sorrow with it." I think one of the greatest sorrows is God wanting us to do something and us saying, "We can't because we're too tied up." The point that I am trying to make is that if we are living like the world--leveraged, financed everything, credit cards charged up, every dime spent--and we call ourselves "blessed," you got that with your own might and your own strength, and you got it in the world's way. You can't say God has given it to you and blessed you if you are not free to do with it what He tells you to do, or to move in the direction He asks you to move. We can't get caught up like the world and get so bound up because we are wanting something bigger and better and newer and what the Joneses have. Let God be the source of it. And if He is the source, there is no sorrow. I'm not just saying you have to pay cash for everything. That would be nice if you could. It would be wise, but most are not going to be able to do something like that. But at least be good stewards, and don't get to the place where we can't obey and where we can't have some to give when God says to give to a ministry, to those that are less fortunate than ourselves, to just bring in that offering that we talked about and say, "Thank you, Jesus."

Wouldn't it be a shame not to be able to bring in that thanksgiving offering that the Old Testament speaks of or what we talked about? Wouldn't it be a shame to have every dime accounted for on a credit card and everything else such that you can't come in here and lift an offering up to God? That's the spirit we were dealing with as we started this study and what we are trying to face in this world we are living in. We would like to think that we haven't been vexed. We would like to think that we are free from the world. I want you to understand that if you are caught up in this financial bondage, it is no different than being bound to pornography and alcohol and drugs. The world is the world, and that is part of it. We can't let the financial part of it hold us in bondage any more than all the rest of this stuff that Satan uses. That is why we are addressing this spirit.

PASTOR GARDNER: It has already been spoken to, but the one word that you use so often, which I think I have heard you use more in this teaching this time than any other, was the aspect of honoring. As I was thinking about it, because I sit here; I was taught tithing before I was ever saved. I was probably about 10 years old when my mother taught that to me. We were in the Methodist church. So that has always been a no-brainier to me. I'd have to say--the times that I can remember--I don't remember that ever being a chore. I won't say that it was always joyfully. At times, I couldn't figure out why, because that was not a problem to me, giving. But through the years, I began to realize that at times the giving, even though you were giving what you are supposed to, and often giving above and beyond offerings for missions or whatever was needed, but at times, it was kind of, "This is what I need to do. I am going to obey God. I need to do this. Why isn't this exciting to me?" I began to realize it was because other aspects of serving Father weren't exciting. The coming up here--"Ugh, we have to go up this Saturday to clean the building. Our home fellowship, it is their month. It is our month to do this, so we've got to go do this." If you're not joyful in that, you can't possibly be joyful in giving over the money. It just doesn't work. Or "I got an opportunity to share the gospel. We are going out on Friday to one of the detention centers," or wherever we may be going, and, "Oh man, I wanted to go out shopping for the dress!" (Not me, but somebody else, some young lady, for the formal that's coming. The guys don't go out and look for clothes for that or something.) The joy is gone because you are distracted with something else.

Money gets eaten up with other things, but time as well. Because I find a lot of people have more problem with time than they do money. When I watch that, I think, "They are giving, but I can guarantee you it's not joyful." It is not with a thing of honoring the Lord. The money is not the issue. I was trying to share that with the young people this week. The dollar amount is not the issue. The issue is out of here, out of the heart. If you can't boast, "I've done everything according to the Word--tithing, giving of offerings, freely giving; but I struggle with this cleaning the building or coming up to pull weeds on a Friday evening or go out sharing the gospel to one of the things. I don't get as excited about that." Well, your giving is not exciting then as well, because it is all from the same heart. You can't pick and choose what you want to be excited about. So to me, the honoring Father. For some of those that may be struggling or having a problem with giving tithes or offerings, I would start checking out a lot of other areas of my life, because they are probably out of order.

PASTOR SCOTT: That's a good point, very good point. Any questions on the comments of the guys or any of the teaching that has gone on to this point? In general, we are going to just make sure that everybody is hearing the same thing. I have heard a few questions asked that we might address if they are not presented here, but I want to make sure that everybody is hearing the same message, that we are all on the same page. Is there anybody that had any questions along these lines of the teaching of the last couple of sessions? None? Been pretty thorough? Yes?

MALE SPEAKER #1: I need your guidance on this. I was kidding with some of the men the other day, and I said, "I think I found a loophole on tithing, in offerings and in tithes." I said, "This is what it is. Tell me if it stands up or not. On our increase (what we gain), the loophole would be this. If I come to your house and do $2,000 worth of work, and then you come to my house and do $2,000 worth of work, that offsets it. There is no gain."

PASTOR SCOTT: Right.

MALE SPEAKER #1: Then I was going back in the Old Testament and stuff. A lot of them did a lot of bartering and stuff. Again, it's a heart attitude; I understand that. But I was just bringing that up from the aspect of, I guess, being a little foolish or whatever, talking about "I think I found a loophole on this tithe and offering thing." So could you speak towards that?

PASTOR SCOTT: As he's talking about the increase aspect of it, let's remember again, as we go back and understand the basics of tithe: the tenth, of course, and that produce of the firstfruits is the Lord's. It is holy unto to the Lord. So it all starts off with that fact that none of that can be touched by anybody but the priesthood. It's God's method of receiving honor through His visible representation, which was the priests. That was His intention. And that is why, actually, the priests--and even in the day of Jesus.

How many of you remember when we went to Jerusalem and we saw the model of the city? How many of you remember that, who went on that particular trip? The king's palace was the only thing larger than whose dwelling? Does anybody remember? They pointed it out to us. Do you all remember? The house of whom? Caiaphas, the priest. So we realize that just below the king was the priest, at those particular times. These were the ones that represented God. They were always very wealthy. They were the ones--it is very obvious, as this system was set up, that God wanted that honored. He wanted that visible representation. I am saying all that to speak to the spirit of this. It's all set up to honor God. What can bring the most honor to God in these different areas?

Bartering is an exchange between you and me. The fact that you did (the example) $2,000 worth of work for me and I did $2,000 worth of work for you in this bartering-type of system, somewhere along the line, there was a wherewithal that was allowing you to exchange it. Whatever this business might have been or the skill levels or the tools that were used, somewhere along the line, there was provision and increase that was made that God enabled us, however that would have happened. I'm trying to think of a system from the first century. I grew grain; you raised sheep. Now we're going to do something for one another, and there is going to be an exchange somewhere. If it's just time, that is one thing. If it is substance, increase, each individual, before they shared it, was to honor God with the firstfruits of it. I think that would be the observation that we would make on that. Does that--because I am trying to think of the generics. There has to be an exchange other than just time, unless I'm misunderstanding the question. I don't know if I am understanding that. If you want to get more specific, I can speak to a specific situation.

MALE SPEAKER #1: Say I came to your house; and you bought the paint and everything; and all I am doing is the labor to put it up. Or you supplied the lawn mower; I am cutting the grass. Then you come to my house, and you're putting together computer software or whatever--even though I have it there but I don't know how to put it in. But you have the wherewithal and the knowledge to do so.

PASTOR SCOTT: Sure. I think that goes on a lot in our midst, to where people are just blessing one another and helping each other. Those are all good things, and we are being blessed.

The question came up about gifts, which you could even possibly say this could be a "gifting" to someone. It's back to the honor again. Chuck, you made an observation on gifts that was good. Then I will share something along those lines. But I think the spirit of it, again, is, What can we do to honor God? It is about blessing Him.

PASTOR LAROCK: There was one other thought that I was going to say just before I talked about that passage.

PASTOR SCOTT: Okay.

PASTOR LAROCK: Let me see if I have to stand up and sit back down so I can get that. Oh, yes. The whole thing of how Jesus said, "You have heard that it has been said, but I say unto you...." The thing that Jesus was saying there was, "In the Old Testament, there was this standard; but in the New Testament, the standard is so much higher because we have been empowered by God's spirit and by God's grace." In the New Testament, we can do so much more than we could have reasonably expected the Old Testament saints would do; because they did not have hearts renewed. The Holy Spirit came upon them; He indwells us. The veil has been rent in twain from top to bottom. We can go into the most holy place. We've been made new creatures in Christ Jesus, so we've been freed. So we aren't bound to the power of the flesh. "You have heard that it was said, but I say unto you...." "You have heard that it was said that thou shall not commit murder, but I say unto you...." Jesus said it's not enough that you're not killing somebody. Do you have hatred in your heart? What are your words like? It's not enough that you are paying the tenth. Where is your heart? We should have hearts that want to give. I think he is saying it tongue-in-cheek when he uses the term "loophole." We are really not trying to get out of--if we are trying to get out, then we've got a heart problem. Bottom line--that's it.

Just to think of the spirit of what Jesus was saying there--"You have heard that it was said, but I say unto you...." He said there is so much more that He is expecting in the new covenant, with all that we have been given, with all that we enjoy--the access that we have to His presence, with the power that we have as new creatures in Christ Jesus. So if they gave a tenth under the Old Testament, what should we be doing? What should our lives be like? So many of you do give so much more than the tithe and are so glad to honor God with your lives in serving. That does honor the Lord.

What Pastor was referring to, we were talking some yesterday about gifts. I thought of the passage where David was just kind of thinking out loud when he was in battle there. He said, "Man, I would love to have some water from the well in Bethlehem. That would really refresh me right now." He was just thinking back to his hometown and the water there that he drank growing up, just feeling homesick. That was something that would have comforted him at that time. He was kind of thinking that out loud. Some of his warriors thought, "If that's what he wants to have, if that's what is going to bring him some comfort, if that's what is going to refresh him and inspire him to continue to honor the Lord and risk his life for God's glory and God's honor and for us and for the people of God; then we're going to go get it for him." They went and risked their lives to go get him water from that well. They brought that gift back and gave it to their general, and David just took the thing and poured it out before the Lord as an offering. Not as a tithe, but this was a gift that he had received, and he just wanted to honor the Lord with it. In his heart he is thinking, "Man, this is the blood of these men. I'm not worthy of this blood! God is worthy of their blood." I'm sure he was touched; I'm sure that is something that he never forgot as long as he lived. I'm sure it was very humbling for him. But he saw that that was the price of these men's lives.

He poured it out just to honor God. So as we have talked about gifts some, and Pastor was talking about honoring the Lord with our substance, just honoring the Lord with our substance. We know the giving part and the tithes and the offerings, but just wanting to honor Him with the part that we keep even; just honoring Him in the way that we use it and recognizing Him and giving thanks for it.

PASTOR SCOTT: The key again is that honor. Somebody made the comment, "Boy, I'm glad I didn't cash in my $50 gift certificate to Cold Stone (or whatever). I guess I need to sell it and tithe on it or something." I hope they were just joking or being facetious. We're not talking about getting caught up and bound up in every nickel and dime of these type things. We are talking, again, about that spirit of honoring Him and the spirit being just that. We receive so much.

Stop and think--I'm going to really catch flak for this, I know. But I'm going to say it anyway. Do you know how much money we're spending just circulating through this body--literally, just going from that house to that house to that house to that house to that house to that house buying birthday presents for each other and each other's kids, that don't need anything, that have a hundred times more than we already need? Some of us cannot bring ourselves--even though we get a piece of paper that says "No Gifts," we've got to bring a gift. That's about us. There is something wrong. If the people say, "Don't bring any gifts," what are you doing? "I just want to bless them." We're blessed! Some of the people bringing gifts can't afford it. Because some of what we're dealing with is pride. Some of what we're dealing with is tradition, obligation, image, etc. I told you I'm going to get in a little bit of trouble. This is a problem. We can do all of that. And we have a shower down there. There are so many of them that I can't keep up with who had the last one. We bring in thousands of dollars worth of gifts and shower these people with gifts who are blessed out of their socks to start with. [Pastor hears comments from the other men on stage.] What?

PASTOR MILLER: Shame on those people.

PASTOR SCOTT: We don't think anything about it, and we are getting all this stuff. We are talking about increase, and we're getting all this stuff, and we are so blessed. And then to wonder about whether we're giving "too much" to God and honoring the Lord and being thankful. Even in some cases, beloved--listen to me, beloved--people are buying shower gifts for people, and they are not tithing. We are honoring one another and not tithing. We're giving birthday presents and not tithing. Something is wrong. Something is desperately wrong when we can feel so free about doing that. Because what's happening is we are getting something out of this: I'm getting a good feeling; I'm getting a good image; I'm fulfilling Emily Post's doctrine, or whatever it might be.

We're in Malachi, and we're talking about honoring God. "Well, for some of us, times are tough." If you will read one of the great gifts--and I think it has to do with redemption. We were talking about God's sovereign provision for us, the providence of God. Providentially, God sent Joseph into Egypt. When his brothers came, do you remember what happened? The great famine; his brothers came; they revealed themselves; and what did Joseph do? You all remember the story, right? He loaded wagons up with them and did what? Sent it back to Dad. They were in famine, and they sent it back to Dad. They are in famine; the gifts come rolling in (the wagons); and the very next chapter starts off with Jacob doing what with the gifts? Honoring God, sacrificing to God. So as those things come in, and we see it as God and the blessing of the Lord, you can't help but be thankful and rejoice.

We're not talking about every five-dollar gift certificate and wondering whether I should tithe on it. We're talking about a heart attitude of thanksgiving, God being the source, honoring God more than men. That becomes the real issue that we're trying to get across in this spirit, in this generation, right now. It is vitally important, I think, that we examine our own hearts and find out how easy is it to give to man as opposed to how easy is it to give to God.

Some of us are saying, "I'm not giving anything to anybody!" We've got folks that battle with some of those things, but realizing, too, that covetousness is idolatry. Covetousness is just discontentment. We talked about, in the Hebrew, the word "sigh"--"(Sigh) I don't have what I need," "(Sigh) They have more than I have," "(Sigh) I really want that, and I can't have it." But looking and the godliness with contentment. That all becomes part of this same package that we were talking about, of realizing how blessed we really are. Any other questions that anybody might have? We have one here and then one in the back. We can start back there.

MALE SPEAKER #2: Can you give some practical examples for those that possibly find themselves in the quandary of robbing or having been robbing from God? Obviously, it's a lot easier if it's only been a month, but some of those people that might be here that it could be an extended period of time. Practically, how do they go about it? I've already heard from a couple people, "What do I need to do at this point?" I just shared, "Start tithing, and then start worrying about the others as the Lord starts revealing it to you."

PASTOR SCOTT: That is the key. Start tithing. Start doing the minimum right now of what you know you're supposed to be doing. "What about everything that I owe?" See it for what it is: sin. Confess it. Some of your eyes are getting all, "Oh, confess it; and He's faithful and just to forgive it, right?" He might. He might. We're talking about a heart again. He might forgive it all. He has forgiven us everything anyway, hasn't He? "You mean God is not going to hold me to the back tithe plus the 20 percent interest?" He might. What do you think you need? You see, God is going to do what is best for you. Some of us He might let off the hook, and others He might keep His foot on our neck. What is your heart condition? Then it goes on and talks about that it is according to what a man has. If there be a willing heart. Are you willing to pay it all back with interest? "Let me think. If I say I'm willing, will God let me off?"

But the key is to start right now [doing] what you weren't doing, because that is true repentance. So you start doing what you are supposed to do. We know all of the other principles of retribution and all of these things. God said 20 percent, if you have stolen from Him. So you begin to pray and say, "Father, look at the mess that I have put myself in. My choice is to honor You." I want to tell you something. If you start honoring God, guess what? I think you might begin to see some money come in and some blessings come in and some bills cease. Maybe you're not going to be so sick, and maybe everything is not going to break down. Maybe a raven will land and meal will multiply and men will give into your bosom, good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over.

What's your heart? Once you begin to move by faith to honor God, He'll make the wherewithal. He is the one that gives it all anyway. So guess what? If you are living by faith and trying to honor God, and in the whole process of your mess, you owe God plus 20 percent interest, who is it that is going to give you the money plus the 20 percent interest to pay Him back? Who? [Congregation: "God."] But it's that attitude again, the heart attitude.

Where are we? Some of us are pretty easy on ourselves. The Lord set that principle up to cause us to refrain from that, from touching these things. Go ahead and read through--I think it is Leviticus 27. Read through there and see what He was speaking concerning those different aspects. But be prepared to. Start right now, giving no place to the enemy in your life and doing what you know to do. That's what gets you out of the sin. Then ask Him, "Father, make a provision here. Make a way that I can honor You with my life." See what He is guiding you in.

Any practical things along those lines that any of you might have to share? That's a good starting place. Yes?

MALE SPEAKER #3: Pastor, when you were talking about birthday presents and things like that, it kind of made my mind start going that direction, wondering about that. Because traditionally, I've always tithed on cash but never thought of tithing or giving an offering because someone blessed me with something. Like if I gave my wife a pair of earrings or something, does that mean she needs to say, "Well, let me think what the value might have been" and tithe on that? Or if someone gave you a painting or something, and you never really thought about it. But 15 years later, it has increased in value by thousands of dollars or something like that. I was just wondering if you could speak a little more to that issue.

PASTOR SCOTT: One of the things, if you give your wife a pair of earrings, the two are one. So that's a whole different aspect of it. You are sharing; the two of you are one. Those are issues that are different.

What about increase? What about these things that are in our lives, become increase, and now I have this painting that I bought for a thousand dollars and now it's worth $10,000. It's still a painting. What if somebody wants to buy it from you now or trade something, along the lines of these different areas? That's where we were talking about this heart attitude again. Is this something that I have put my hand to that has become increase to me, something that I'm realizing?

As long as you haven't touched it, harvested, benefited from these things in that aspect that we would refer to as "blessing," it's no more than the home that we talked about. The home is worth $1,000, and then it was worth $10,000 and $100,000 and $200, 000. It's just going up and down according to different standards. It's still your house. Now we're going to sell it: now we've got a whole other ball game going on.

That's what we're looking at. I'm going to go down and take out a loan. Okay, on that net worth (my power to borrow, to facilitate whatever it is), I put down on that my painting that's worth 10 grand. Now we're talking a whole other ball game. But see, I don't want to get into all this detail, the specifics. I'm trying to get the spirit across. It is one thing to brag on what I can do and borrow. You are not going to go in there, when you're accounting for yourself, and say that painting is worth the thousand dollars that you paid for it--not if you're trying to borrow money or to do something, to show power, to be "blessed." Do you see what I'm saying? It's just a painting. But now I say, "This is my worth; these are my assets; and I'm going to do something with them." Now we have claimed that blessing, my increase. That's when we begin to be accountable for these things, I believe, before the Lord. We need to examine them.

Does that help a little bit?

MALE SPEAKER #3: I think I'm getting a little carried away with it, but let's say you give your kids a birthday present or four or five birthday presents, something like that, or Christmas presents, whatever.

PASTOR SCOTT: Sure.

MALE SPEAKER #3: Or if someone gives me presents for my birthday, does that mean that's something that I need to give to the Lord? "I need to honor You in this." I never really thought about it. I mean, if it's cash, I've thought about it. But I never even considered when it wasn't cash.

PASTOR SCOTT: So what's the difference between cash and objects? They didn't have cash. A lot of the people didn't have cash. You would have gotten three ears of corn and a chicken. Then what happened--you can read in the Scriptures--you would redeem these things. The priests would set the value on it. When these things would increase, and you say, "Well, I don't have money. I have this much corn and a chicken." The priest would say, "Here's what it's worth." Then if you wanted to redeem them, you would give money. If you wanted to keep the chicken, then you kept the chicken. That's how all of that worked.

That's an interesting passage as you read about redemption of things. It's kind of depressing. I was reading that chapter the other day, and I found out when you get 60 years old, you're not worth much anymore. You're down to 15 shekels. Bummer! At 60, the men and women equal out within five shekels. There is a huge gap between the worth of men and women until you get 60. Then it kind of goes--phhht. Anyway.

PASTOR LAROCK: Is Greer thinking about redeeming you sometime in the next few weeks?

PASTOR SCOTT: I'm still prime for three weeks. Anyway, it's again the spirit of it. But that's American. That's how we think: "If it's cash...." But there is no difference. These are things we're talking about the spirit of.

So now, it's my birthday. May 7 happens to be my birthday.

PASTOR LAROCK: When is it?

PASTOR SCOTT: May 7 happens to be my sixtieth birthday, very special birthday when many gifts should be lavished and recognizing that life is almost over. If you get these gifts, what do you do then? Do you give one of them away? "If I don't have any cash, what do I do? I know what I'll do. I'll get the worst one and give that to God." The Scripture talks about that. It says, now you not only have to give the one you should have given and the worst one, you've got to pay 20 percent. God doesn't like this stuff, that heart. You know what I'm talking about? All I'm saying is just a willingness to honor God. Now, how do I do that? It is done in different ways. It can be to bless others that are less fortunate than us. It can be to send it to Africa, part of it, all of these different things that we can consider.

All I'm saying is just consider how blessed we are and be ready to give and honor God, and be thankful. When I was talking about the birthday presents, I was just mainly saying we just keep running money in a circle. The basement keeps filling up with toys. Pretty soon, all you can see is the little kids' eyes, and they are buried in toys and stuff and clothes. "Oh, Johnny is six!" and he comes in, and he's got like 32 little striped shirts and 75 Barbies--not Johnny, that's Suzie. What would it be like to every once in awhile just not give Suzie the twentieth Barbie, but to help Suzie see we're going to send 50 bucks to help somebody over in Eldoret? Again, to just develop that spirit in some of the younger people, to see that you don't need more clothes than you can wear. Many of our children outgrow their clothes. Some are still brand new with the tags on them, and they outgrow them before they can even get around to wearing them. We're blessed. That's the point we're trying to make.

Any other questions? We'll try to get a few more here. I hope we're trying to convey, again, that spirit of thankfulness and honoring God. Yes.

FEMALE SPEAKER #1: Just some things over the years that I was taught about tithing in different places. In a different church, I was counseled at one time by a guy. I asked him to come to our house and help my husband and me determine how to distribute money appropriately for the boys' futures and for tithing. He had told me at one point that because we were sending the boys to a Christian school, that we could consider that our tithe, because it was putting such a pinch on us. I knew in my heart, though, that I couldn't read that in the Word. And he never came back. I just think through the years that what I've determined is that I have to read the Word of God as it is coming clear to me, and that if I'm touched in my heart to give more than 10 percent, I do; and if not, I just want to honor God with what He requires. And then when He blesses me, I'll give Him that.

But what I had to deal with this week was that I had an increase that was unexpected. But while it was in the bank, I didn't feel I had to do anything with it. Once I cashed it, I realized it was I guess what we call "liquidity." I could actually manipulate it. And that I wanted to give back to the Lord immediately, and I had no problems with that. It doesn't matter how poor I think I am or anything, it was just right.

I did that, and then as it sat in the envelope (because the mail didn't come until the next day), I wouldn't let myself think on it, because I know what my heart will do. It will start coming up with, "Oh for goodness sake, there are people better off than you, and...." I determined that was just a work of the devil. If the Lord touches me to do something, I do it immediately and then I drop it. If I have to go put that envelope in the trunk of the car, I just have to do what's right. That's how I've determined to honor the Lord. I can't think about all these gifts and all these other little things that eat at my brain. I just have to do what I know is right then and not question it again, and run from it if it comes back. I just have to believe that the Lord is going to speak to my heart and tell me the truth the first time. Then I don't have to think on it again.

That's how I'm trying to live my Christian life. Immediate obedience, like I wanted the boys to do when they were little. Don't think on it; just do what you're told to do.

PASTOR SCOTT: It's pretty clear.

FEMALE SPEAKER #1: If you have to dig into it, you're digging too hard.

PASTOR SCOTT: The admonition is clear. Tithing is not difficult to understand at all. We all know what the percentage is. I don't know if the gentleman that came to your house was a pastor or a minister. If he was, he had dung on his face, I'm sure. Because according to Malachi, what he told you was the exact opposite of what God would have told you. His analogy is wrong, because if he is saying give your tithe to your children, then he is saying they are the Levites and the priests, because the tithe belongs to the Lord and to the priests. It doesn't belong to your children. Everything he told you is wrong.

We see, though, where human reason gets you and the trouble that it's in. The tithe is the Lord's. It's holy to God. It's not yours. It belongs to God. It's the priests'. It belongs to God. It goes to the house of God, to the support of the priests. It's the Lord's, holy to the Lord. It's not yours. Should I repeat it one more time? We all understand that. The real issue becomes, What is the tithe? The tithe is a tenth of all that God increases us with. What are the blessings of the Lord that are coming to us? It has to do with that.

Proverbs speaks toward two things: to honor the Lord with our substance (our worth)--not this week's paycheck. That is the firstfruits of our increase. That's where he says, "And the firstfruits of our increase." I am not just honoring God with my paycheck--"That is my tithe." I also honor Him with my worth. That is what has been accumulated with the 90 percent that I have left over that I say am--"This is me. This is my worth. This is my house and my barns that are filled with plenty, and this is my worth." "Do I have to give 10 percent of my worth?" No, you have already tithed. But He says, "Now that you have accumulated this and you have power--you're rich--be ready to communicate, ready to distribute. Be ready to communicate to those who are ministering to you. Be ready to give all of these things that we have to give also in our offerings. "You have robbed me in your tithes and your offerings."

Many of those offerings were trespass offerings, sin offerings, burnt offerings, heave offerings, wave offerings, peace offerings. You go through, and you start reading all the offerings that we have that we honor the Lord with. There are times we should bring offerings when we've sinned, possibly. Especially if the sin is a sin of covetousness or avarice or whatever it is. Recognizing some of these things, but we use and honor Him with our worth. That's the thing we want to see, too. It's not just the tithes. It's what we've accumulated through investments and all of these things that we can still honor God. That's not a percentage. There is nothing that speaks toward a percentage on that aspect of it. It's a heart of worship. Those things, I think, are very important.

One other? We'll take maybe one or two more and see if we can--. Yes.

FEMALE SPEAKER #2: Pastor, I just want to relate a story. I had been in a Southern Baptist church when I received my salvation, and the pastor was teaching on tithing. And I just felt so convicted about it, that I wasn't tithing. So two deacons came to the house to go over my finances and such. After they had looked at my finances, they decided, they agreed, that I could not afford to tithe. At the time, I had a new car; I had credit card debt. No one even mentioned that. That was it, just the bottom line that as a single mother and so forth, that I could not afford to tithe. I would just encourage anyone that's not tithing, I don't care who it is or what financial status they are, you cannot afford not to tithe. The blessings of the Lord covers much more than a dollar amount. There is no way to measure the peace, the lack of fear, your health, relationship with others, your natural goods (like you mentioned) lasting supernaturally. Again, I don't care who the person is. No one can afford not to tithe.

PASTOR SCOTT: Amen. It is amazing. You could go to probably--you could run up and down this road here and go to probably 90 percent of the churches, and they would tell you that exact counsel right there. We've heard two already. That's what you're going to hear, because you know what? Tragically, it's about honoring men and not God. We have chosen to honor the Lord. That's how our lives are. That's how we're going to live. These are the things that are vital. I think Jeff--that's not what the story was about, but I wonder what the rich man would have been willing to do to get out of his predicament. The whole teaching we just did on the Sermon on the Mount--this life that we're in is about laying treasures up in heaven. That's the key to it all.

We'll take one more, and then see if we can call it an evening. We've got a hand here. Then I think there was one right over here. One plus one is one.

MALE SPEAKER #4: Pastor, I know the emphasis recently has been tithing on our increase, but when would there be a time to tithe of our time as opposed to money?

PASTOR SCOTT: We don't find a specific statement in the Scriptures toward time as far as a tithe. But I think that it is a wise thing to do to make sure that we are offering in worshipping and honoring God with our time. That's a very precious commodity that we have. That time can be spent in many different ways: in prayer, in study, in serving one another, all of these things. Because Romans says, "Present your bodies as living sacrifice [what's the next word?] holy and acceptable to God, which is our reasonable service." So we realize that all of our life is the Lord's. If we are taking all of this ourselves when we are given 24 hours a day, the Lord should be getting His due in our time of prayer, worship, study, serving, ministering, and all these different things. If all we are doing is throwing God a few token minutes, we are not honoring Him with our lives; we are not presenting our bodies as living sacrifices. I would make your time, as Steve commented earlier, as important an issue as the physical resources that God has given us.

Over here? I think we had one more. Yes.

MALE SPEAKER #5: Hey, Pastor, how are you doing?

PASTOR SCOTT: Good.

MALE SPEAKER #5: We are talking about tithing here. And I hear everyone talking about the blessings of tithing, and it's good and everything like that. But I've got a little testimony. I was out on my own at the age of 20 and just got a roommate and started going to church and everything like that. I never really learned about tithing until this one minister broke tithing down that I'd never even heard before. It really convicted me. I went home and started thinking about this thing. Then I looked inside myself, realizing that I was in church but not really in church, per se. My life was not reflecting the Word of God. I was going to church, but this particular time, it really convicted me.

All of a sudden, my brother calls me out of the blue and asked me how things were going. I was telling him and said, "By the way, can I borrow some money? I am a little short on my rent." Some other things were going on, and my roommate was paying my electric and my other stuff that we were supposed to split down the middle. And I was just struggling. I was barely paying my rent. I'll never forget that my brother basically said, "Have you been tithing?" And I said, "No, I haven't." And he says, "You've got to start with that first. If you want your job to increase with the finances...." My job was going through a layoff also. I didn't know if I was going to have a job in three weeks. So a lot of things were being interrupted in my life. So my brother prayed with me on the phone. That day--well, that following Sunday, of course, I gave a tithe. But this time, I said, "Okay, Lord, I'm going to try You. My way hasn't worked. So I'm going to try You."

I kept on continually tithing, and of course, it brings a humility in you. Because when you start to realize that you don't have no other help and no other direction to go to, God is the only one to lean on now. Now He's got all your time and all your focus and all your thoughts. I just started tithing continuously with whatever my tithing was. You know what I'm saying? I started giving, and I started feeling joyous about just giving--not looking at the amount, not looking at what was the money issue, just the giving.

I was paying my rent. My roommate didn't throw me out. He got promoted. So therefore, he was able to still pay my electric and gas. He said, "Okay; don't worry about that. I will take care of this until you are able to find a better job. Plus, I didn't get fired from my job. They had a layoff, and I didn't get fired. I believe that when you give your tithe, it creates a humility in you to realize that you're not doing it by yourself. When I realized that I wasn't doing it by myself, then I was going in to work happier, making $11 an hour, when everyone else was complaining. But I still had a job, and I still had a place to stay. So, I thank God.

PASTOR SCOTT: Amen. That Scripture says in Malachi, "Prove me now herewith, saith the Lord." The key is we can't say, "The table of the Lord is contemptible. It's vain to serve the Lord. It's vain to trust God." These are the things that we want to guard our hearts against. So hopefully, the message of honoring and worship and these aspects, hopefully it has come across for us all loud and clear. The heart issue is really, "It's all God's." Don't say that it's all God's if you are looking for a way to keep as much as you can for yourself. Those are the things that we really need to look at.

As we shared the other day, don't be foolish and just give it all away unless God tells you to. He could tell you. The Lord walked up to people in the past and said, "Give everything you have and follow Me." That's what He wants, your heart. Are you ready if God spoke to you right now, "Give every dime you have away and just come and follow Me and trust Me and don't take any thought for the morrow"? Are you ready? That's the life that He wants us to live on a daily basis. When you can answer "yes" to that, then you are free; you are honoring God with your life and your substance. That is where we want to be and walk.

Any last comments that anybody might have? No?

Father, we do thank You for Your Word. We are a blessed people, Lord. We saw the statistics the other day that billions are living on 23 cents a day in the world, billions without electricity, billions without drinking water, living in corrugated lean-tos. We are blessed, Father, and we just want to say, "Thank You." Help us to honor You with all of our substance, not to be those living in ceiled houses and letting Your house be ignored. Help us to be those people that look for the best of the best to offer up. Help us to be ready to distribute and continue with that heart attitude of ministering to those that are in need around the world that are part of the body of Christ. Most of all, Father, we just ask that it wouldn't be words; it wouldn't be a doctrine that we hold to but are separate from. We have given our lives, holy and acceptable unto You. Everything we have is Yours, Lord. Help us to bless You with it, we ask in Jesus' name, amen.

Before you go, turn to somebody and say, "You can't outgive God." Go in peace. God's love go with you.

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